A few fixes needed:

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 4:28 pm

OK I know I lied. Im replying to you.

Contracts have these things called clauses. Heard of those? If not look it up. There is no implied risk to contracted shipping. It all depends on your CONTRACT! Contracts, you know those things that define finacial agrements between two or more parties. Where the hell you are getting this idea that contrated services have some undue amount of risk, I have no idea. It depends on your contract (that word again).

But if you think that eveyone would just run thier buisnesses like a crap shoot. That nobody would take advantage of economy of scale. That no shipping service could possable offer insured services. That all known modern economic theroy would be disregarded. That carrying around a lot of cash in a bad neiborhood really is a good idea. That evey person in the entire galaxy is just waiting for an opertunity to turn pirate.

Ohh now I see your point. Guess you were right all along.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:25 pm

Hey ^^; it's a game... the player is supposed to feel like there's more going on in the universe than just their quest, but the underlying economic system doesn't have to be that precise. Why? Because players won't notice, past a certain point.

So don't worry too much

thehawk · Post by **thehawk** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:46 pm

All this talk of contracts and such (and everything that goes along with them) sounds fine when you are talking about the 'missions' you get from the Merchant Guild or from the computer. These seem like they are done when their regular shippers can not work out, for whatever reason. Maybe it just costs them less to have a freelance hauler move freight to a particular place once in a while than to try to put it on a scheduled route.

But what about those times when you wander into the ComEx? You are spending your money to buy the things you want to, probably because you think you know a better place to take them for a better profit than anyone else does.

As far as what is available from a planet (your twenty units of wood, and your fourteen units of pets or whatever) maybe that is all that is available -to- -you-. It is not like you can go very many places and have access to the entire stock that place has to offer. Maybe it is because of who you know or do not know. Maybe, perhaps more importantly, it is because of who knows -you-.

Heh. I am not even sure why I involve myself in these. People on one side rarely listen to much said by people on the other side, and it seems like the likely destiny of a thread is to evolve into such a 'discussion'.

-thehawk

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:46 pm

Thank you. Guess I overanalized it.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:48 am

As much as I would like the trading aspect of Priv/WCU to be expanded (I usually fly a Galaxy or Drayman) I understand that if it gets too complicated people will simply skip it and go fly to fight. And I agree -- the commodity exchange is for people who don't have any hookups. And in order to prevent someone withouth the right contacts from taking up too much of the market, quantities are limited -- right now you're only landing on 1 location per planet anyway...

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:02 am

Yeah, but, right now, if you're flying a Paradigm, you got 100,000 space for cargo, and you're just flying around with the cargo empty. I'm sure the same goes if you buy a Drayman, in a smaller, but still big scale. So what's the solution? Have the numbers of available stock magically increase when you have a bigger ship? Could be, but if the reasoning behind the small quantities is that they are just the scraps left after the big haulers take their chunk of the business, then this should not be any different depending on your size of ship.
So, I see only one solution left, and that is to remove the arbitrary caps on available stock, or make them much larger.

thehawk · Post by **thehawk** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:13 am

*chuckles* There is always more than one solution. You could also remove the ability to purchase a Drayman or Paradigm until progress is made in reworking the whole economics-of-the-galaxy thing. *grins* Then no one has to worry about flying around with a mostly empty hold.

-thehawk

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:52 am

Well you're really not supposed to fly a paradigm... as for the drayman... I think that it's 300->600 cargo, keep in mind that 200 or so will be taken by your escort.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:19 am

I think I'll take a Galaxy, instead...

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:49 am

Another bug needing to be squished, and it's been bothering me so long I can't figure out how I forgot to report it:

Suppose I'm flying North on afterburner, and there's a jump point I have selected to the East. If I press Auto, I arrive at my destination jump point but still having Northbound speed. Doesn't make sense from a point of view of physics at all. If I've travelled all that distance, the initial nortward momentum had to be dealt with early, by the autopilot, in order to get me to the jump-point, so no nortward momentum should be left at all, by then.

Here's one about the logic of where random enemies are. The locations should be chosen for the entire sector at random; --that is, the game shouldn't cheat. I was at KM252, with my ship heavily damaged, almost no armor, and out of missiles. Wanted to make it to New Detroit. I went the shortest route: Nexus, Junction, NewCon, NewDetr. So, I get attacked by Kilrathi and Retros together.
Died.
Tried this time going via Perry. Soon as I'm in New Detr. I get attacked by Kilrathi and Retros together.
Died.
Third time: I went to Perry but took the way of Midgard and Rikel, as the Rikel jump point in NewDetr is close to the planet. As soon as I jump from Rikel to new Detr., I get attacked by Kilrathi and Retros together.

Same numbers and types of ships each darn time.

Randomness I can accept; NOT this.

Post by **MamiyaOtaru** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:05 pm

chuck_starchaser wrote:If I've travelled all that distance, the initial nortward momentum had to be dealt with early, by the autopilot, in order to get me to the jump-point, so no nortward momentum should be left at all, by then.

Not sure why this is a big deal. It happens because autopilot is instantaneous as far as the game engine is concerned (it doesn't simulate the time it would take to fly from point A to point B for real). I don't find it disturbing enough to worry about.

Here's one about the logic of where random enemies are.
... (same thing happens in the same place 3 times) ...
Same numbers and types of ships each darn time.

Randomness I can accept; NOT this.

Can't say I follow the logic on this one. The game isn't cheating. At that point in time, there happen to be Kilrathi and Retros in New Detroit. If they were there the first time, why is it so surprising they'd be there after you load and try again?

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:56 pm

Not sure why this is a big deal. It happens because autopilot is instantaneous as far as the game engine is concerned (it doesn't simulate the time it would take to fly from point A to point B for real). I don't find it disturbing enough to worry about.

It's a big deal for me because of pain in my right hand: What I do is, at the beginning of a mission I struggle to find the exact point, with the mouse, at which the ship is flying straight, so that for the rest of the trip, unless enemies show up, I can do everything with my left hand, using the keyboard. But when the ship comes out of Auto with a momentum in an off direction, I'm no longer pointing at the jump point. If there are no enemies, I can correct the orientation of the ship using the arrow keys, again, with my left hand. But if there are enemies and I need to afterburn towards the jump point, I'm forced to grab the mouse with my right hand, again. In any case, it is rather insulting to one's intelligence that momentum in some off direction should be preserved by Autopilot.

Can't say I follow the logic on this one. The game isn't cheating. At that point in time, there happen to be Kilrathi and Retros in New Detroit. If they were there the first time, why is it so surprising they'd be there after you load and try again?

Maybe I didn't spell it out: It's not AT New Detroit THE PLANET, that I meet the same group of Kilrathi and Retros. It's at the jump point coming into the New Detroit SYSTEM. NO MATTER WHICH JUMP POINT I COME IN FROM.

Not only is the game cheating that way, but also it seems to be cheating in order to be UN-BALANCED. So much for talk about the importance of balance. When I go to New Detroit with my ship in top shape, there may be a Kilrathi here, or a Retro there. But if I go there with my ship in its last legs, then (1) they are waiting for me by the dozen, (b) They are there each time, even after quitting and reloading the game, and (c) they are always at the jump point I'm coming in through, whichever jump point that is!!!...

AI == "gratuitously frustrate the player", it seems...

forlarren · Post by **forlarren** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:48 pm

Hey Chuck. Now I understand what you are talking about. I dont think the computer was doing it on purpose to frustrate you though. Sorry to hear about your hand. But have you tried repairing on another planet yet?

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:15 pm

Yeah, I should have thought of that. I ended up taking my contraband cargo to Newcastle, instead. I do believe the AI was trying to frustrate me, though; it would be too much coincidence, that I came to Detroit via 3 different jump points and met the same enemies each time, when most of the time there's only one or two of them. And I didn't have a mission, so it's not like these were programmed "mission enemies"...

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:44 pm

Not sure whether this is a WCU data bug or a vegastrike engine bug: Gas giant planets in the real world are typically 10 or 100 times the diameter of rocky planets. If they were at least twice the diameter in the game it would be a bit more hinting of the real thing. Also, gas giants should have rings; non-gas giants should NOT have rings.
And only one set of rings is allowed, all in the same plane. Criss crossing rings would mutually anihilate. Finally, rings would look more natural if displayed with additive blending, rather than alpha blending.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:10 pm

Part of the problem is that I was trying to adapt the autogen to Priv-like distances.