Possible (borrowed) theory for wormholes

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grendel0226
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Possible (borrowed) theory for wormholes

Post by grendel0226 »

Alright, I'm pretty sure KA Applegate borrowed this concept from Stephen Hawking, who got the calculations (but maybe not the theory) for wormholes from Einstein, but the name is all hers.

When you punch a hole in space-time, where does the matter go? Applegate called that Z-space. A couple times in her series (Animorphs) the characters got stuck there for one reason or another dealing with sci-fi technology. This could be an interesting plot device to use, like say if you get shot at inside a jump, and you lose control and hit the walls of the hole. Instead of vaporizing instantly (which is the theory Hawking used, more or less, but more painful), you get stuck in what Applegate called Z-space. A space that doesn't normally exist in our dimension until the space-time continuum is screwed with.

I originally just posted this because I knew it would come up sometime, and it would probably alleviate a headache from JackS, but it's actually a fairly solid plot device, now that I think of it.
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Re: Possible (borrowed) theory for wormholes

Post by Shissui »

grendel0226 wrote:Alright, I'm pretty sure KA Applegate borrowed this concept from Stephen Hawking, who got the calculations (but maybe not the theory) for wormholes from Einstein, but the name is all hers.
An original thread, all your own! All your others have been resurrecting stuff that has been dead for 2-4 years.

Black hole anomalies are not in the slightest related to what VS uses. The anomaly that you are referring to is the calculation that if a small enough black hole were to be spinning fast enough, then it is possible for a photon to travel past the event horizon & yet return from there; but the calculations make no promise that it will return to where it came from. Were any solid matter (or a human) to attempt to use a black hole in this way, then the object would be torn to component atoms (or smaller) long before reaching the critical distance.

In contrast, the jump points in Vega Strike are constructed artifacts left over from a long gone civilisation.

***
To respond to all your other threads -- if a concept is not a cliché of some flavour, then an idea is not likely to be useful for practical game construction. The familiarity of many concepts is useful to the appeal of a game by allowing the game to behave in a way that seems consistent with what the user expects. At the same time, this must be balanced with enough originality that it appears different too.

Although you may recognise some idea or another from some other context, you will find that those sources, too, can be cross referenced to yet older ideas; and so on back to the second clay tablet referencing to the first.

Similarly, the idea of jump points left behind by an older (absent) civilisation is also thoroughly recycled science fiction -- off hand I can think of several references from the 80s back through to the 50's in English language literature. But this idea is definitely *not* recycled Hawking physics.

[Edit: "jump gates" --> "jump points"]
Last edited by Shissui on Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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grendel0226
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Post by grendel0226 »

Yeah, I didn't notice that the further the pages go back, the older they are. Didn't get that ordering system until today.

Also, the video demo I saw a few years ago in school about Hawking's theory on wormholes had a virtually constructed wormhole on earth, so the person could literally punch through the earth without punching through it. I figured that was the same premise of the wormholes that everything from star trek to Babylon 5 to this game used (yes, all of them other than VS used blue, glowing gate-like wormholes at one point) for the explanation. And then again, the Z-space that Applegate used appeared in both a black hole and a hole they just punched through space (in the Andalite Chronicles). The ship in the blackhole punched before compacting in the black hole, so I was thinking that that was the jump theory we're using.
Last edited by grendel0226 on Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by loki1950 »

There are also examples from 30's sci-fi the so called pulp area.

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Post by jackS »

On a purely pedantic nomenclature issue, we (as a community) should make some attempt to more consistently call them "jump points" vs. "jump gates" as the actual devices maintaining the connection aren't co-located with the entry/exit points (or even the star systems containing them) - that is, there's no gate as such to be seen.
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Post by Shissui »

jackS wrote:On a purely pedantic nomenclature issue, we (as a community) should make some attempt to more consistently call them "jump points" vs. "jump gates" as the actual devices maintaining the connection aren't co-located with the entry/exit points (or even the star systems containing them) - that is, there's no gate as such to be seen.
If you *really* want pedantry -- I shall postulate that a "gate" is the space within the {frame} through which you pass & not the structure that bounds it. As such, there is no need for the "device to co-locate with it".

Were I to take the hinged piece of ironwork off of my garden fence -- then it is just a rectangular piece of wrought iron bars leaning against the wall & can no longer serve as a "gate" until I put it back. Yet, the "gate" that was there before remains in the hole where this iron frame used to be.

However, if you want them called "jump points", that's fine with me regardless of how many strands we draw out from splitting hairs.
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Post by jackS »

Shissui wrote:
jackS wrote:On a purely pedantic nomenclature issue, we (as a community) should make some attempt to more consistently call them "jump points" vs. "jump gates" as the actual devices maintaining the connection aren't co-located with the entry/exit points (or even the star systems containing them) - that is, there's no gate as such to be seen.
If you *really* want pedantry -- I shall postulate that a "gate" is the space within the {frame} through which you pass & not the structure that bounds it. As such, there is no need for the "device to co-locate with it".

Were I to take the hinged piece of ironwork off of my garden fence -- then it is just a rectangular piece of wrought iron bars leaning against the wall & can no longer serve as a "gate" until I put it back. Yet, the "gate" that was there before remains in the hole where this iron frame used to be.

However, if you want them called "jump points", that's fine with me regardless of how many strands we draw out from splitting hairs.
lol. :)

To be truly honest, I don't fundamentally care what they are called - I am merely of the opinion that increasing the frequency of "points" relative to "gates" in the discussion of the transit systems might have the benefit of increasing the likelihood that people will report as a bug any reaction the (ostensible HUD construction of) the nav marker has to weapons fire ;-). (This bug having been present in past versions of VS due to everything being given at least a shield_0 :-P )
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