Update, RE: a clear example.

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snow_Cat
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Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

SPOILER WARNING. wrote: This thread contains information describing a side story.
^- - ^ What was supposed to take a few hours has infact taken a few hours. I'm just lazy.

^ - -^ I got boged down with setting details that I forgot that this is just an example, so here it is:
</hr><h2>Initial conditions</h2></br>
Premise: members of an expidition following a trip into 'dark space' have returned with fragments of a rouge asteroid so rich in palladium and tantalum they've quit to start their own expiditions with one goal: find that asteroid first and hold on to it.

Primary Cast:
  • "Science Officer" Rene
    • was actually an entry level lab technician with the first expidition- but bankrolled himself by leasing the mineral rights to a mining consortium. Now chair of an exploratory company he is poised to land a mining base on that asteroid. Currently is gathering materials, and setting up support equipment for a mining operation.
    • nieve, is being underminded by the consortium
    • living on a mining base connected with the consortium
    • previously living out of a plowshare with a dud engine which has since been refurbished as a gesture of goodwill by the first expidition
  • Mr. Murray
    • was some sort of conserige/manager/gopher with the expidition. Has sold his fragment to hire wingmen knowing that "mineral rights" don't mean a thing in lawless darkspace. Plans to find that asteroid with all the guns necessary at hand to fend off both pirates and everybody else.
    • Pragmatic disposition
    • calls figherbase home, but is more comfortable on a relay.
    • Once lost a ladder when he went on a 'break' and forgot what corridor he left it in.
  • Erica "the lass"
    • is a rogue that has noticed the considerable amount of 'but keep it under y`ur hat' and has decided that since neither of these jerks know where exactly this asteroid is, or even what general direction from the jump gate it is, that she'd beter find it before the fighting gets out of hand.
    • guarded, even for a mech-girl
    • most 'comfortable' planetside, though suffers episodes of agoraphobia
    • is has inside information from the leader of the last expidition
    • questionable ties to piracy
Supporting Cast:
  • The consortium and its drones understand that by the terms of the agreement with SO-Rene, the bankroll is actualy a huge debt should he not be the one to lay claim to the asteroid. If that happens to be another member of the consortium - even so.
    • another faceless business corporation
    • helping SO-Rene to get the location of the gate
    • will provide the player with 'sabotage' missions against M-Murray
  • Mercinaries hired by M-Murray are little more than pirates, a few even were until they signed with him.
    • in competition with the player
    • might have one 'introduce some old friends' during the buildup phase
  • The Expidition is using the various jump-gates that open onto darkspace to try and intercept Forsaken colony-ships that are still in transit. While it has yet to report finding any colonyship it has catalogued hundreds of gates that remain unmarked because of their utter irrelevance.
    • crew released during major ship refit
    • has made no mineral claim
  • Pirates are harassing the consortium.
    • trying not to make a joke about "free" "information" here
Arc Paramiters: In the process of bringing one (or none) of these plans to fulition the player will find a mining operaion and the original expidition.
</br><h3>The Metagame Board</h3></br>
Meta Players each have their own game piece starting at the center of the board where the Image icon is. Each metaplayer then offers the player missions that can advance them torward their goal or set an opponent back, depending on the outcome. It is like an elaborate game of snakes and laders involving backstabbery and sneakyness - (okay it's exactly like snakes and laders.)

If the player accepts an advancement mission a success will send the metaplayer's own piece down the bright track, a failure the dark one.

If the player chooses an impediment mission a success will send the target metaplayer's piece down the thin arrow-line .
path_on.png
path_off.png
path_neg.png
Each node on this map represents a necessay step, or resource, or zone of control that each metaplayer's overall plot needs for their end game; The further from the center the more D's the player will encounter. Eventually one metaplayer will reach their end-game, then non-plot missions that maintain the resulting status quo will result. The radial symetry of the gameboard serves two purposes:
  1. makes the length and complexity of each subplot similar
  2. establishes a nice Rock,Paper,Scisors effect through the interference missions.
chuck_starchaser wrote:WTF. I need a clear example.
^- - ^ Meow, okay.

Each of the Primary Cast start on on the board offering their 'introduction' missions from the Image mark at the center of the board where each of their tokens are.
  • 'Remember the milk'Rene explains that he is planning an expidition and asks the player to ferry supplies for him. On success Rene explains that he is able to pay the player because he has been bankrolled by the consortium. Portrays a very cocky and nieve viewpoint in flavour text.
  • 'That could have gone better'Murray, recently finding an opening on his roster asks the player to run a patrol for him somewhere an eliminate a number of severely damaged pirate ships. Responds to "How did you afford to hire me?" with "Why would you want to know?" and offers the next mission.
  • 'bring me a shrubbery'(after the player has spoken with one of the other two) Erika having recently moved asks the player to collect her stuff from a man named Roger on an ocean world and bring it to her current location. She never suggests that she would pay for the service, however in the closing conversation it is established that she knows about the asteroid and has plans to collect it. Also if asked about the cargo replies, "I love growing things, but- as a space-fairing mech I'm uncomfortable without having some hard surface no more than ten meters in any direction. It's why I couldn't become an arborist, but I've kept my shrubbery- I think it's nice and not too expensive."
So lets say the player fails Murray, but suceeds in ferrying Rene's milk and delivering Erika's shubbery. Then both Rene's and Erika's metagamepiece travel down their 'success' tracks; red:right, and green:up-left respecively. While Murray's metagamepiece goes down the path of failure, down-right.

Now that the metaplayers have been established the player is now also offered impediment missions, color coded abobe by whom is offering it.
  • 'We'll crosss that when we reach it'Rene is one crucial step from reaching his end-game: establishing a blockade/support base this side of the gate. To do this he must move all of his cache's of material into position at once. The player is asked to either ferry cargo against armed oppostion, or patrol the area to eliminate many attacking pirates.
    • 'Parity'Erika cannot allow Rene to advance unopposed, and is offering the player a bounty on every one of Rene's ferrys destroyed. 40% of ferries must fail to set him back.
  • 'there is no hill'having suffered a setback in holding off the pirates Murray is looking to launch a counterattack against their over-extended and undermaned carrier.
    • 'molasses'The consortium senses that this would be a good opportunity to help 'the economic process along' and scuttle the supply ship Murray is relying upon to keep his fighters active.
  • 'Sparkler'Erika is almost ready to pass that gate, however she (for reasons undisclosed) does not have access to the private communications relay on the other side of the gate. But she's devised a plan; escort her support ship to a position tangental to the jumpgate, it will overpower the private communications relay's jamming signal.
    • 'bottled up'Mr.Murray is aware of this and is planning an attack on the communications ship to destroy it's special communications array (fancy sub-unit?)
^ - -^ This is the tricky bit.
At each Image node the metaplayer is engaged in an operation (this is why they don't just do it themselves) and the player is offered a different role (mission) in that operation each time until the player has tried every role. Then roles start to be combined in pairs, etc. This does lead to situations where the player may be asked to take the cargo to the blockade, while escorting the cargo ship; dialogue can be scripted to detect this and add "You'll have to escort yourself this time."

When the player in a single mission has everyrole in an operation, there is no impediment offered (cannot allow the player to milk the campaign) and it is possible for a metaplayer to 'lose' and go an endgame scenario.

:twisted: A particular quirk may be that when a player has previously attempted a impediment mission against the metaplayer at this 'operational' node the metaplayer will always tack the particular role onto the player's mission.

Roles that can be fitted to any operation are:
  • patrol/scout
  • hunt
  • escort
  • defend
  • attack
  • courier


For example, Murray can offer these roles in operation 'there is no hill'
  • patrol/scout: We need to find the pirate carrier, fly to these areas of pirate activity and return (in one piece) when you have found their carrier.
  • hunt: When the counterattack starts we can expect their ships to return; fly a patrol around the area and intercept incoming fighters
  • escort: We haven't got the money for a proper cruiser with the big fancy guns; so we strapped this Stellar Converter to a plowshare. It's a little slow to so we will need you to escort it into firing position, and keep it intact while it charges, NVM the aftermath.
  • defend: pirates are attacking this base, keep them from leaving once the counterattack starts. Oh and ovbiously from blowing me up in the process.
  • attack: The pirate carrier is somewhere between these two gates, destroy it.
  • courier: Would you mind picking up some supplies, we are running low on milk and ammuntion.
^- - ^ And so the player runs various missions for these casts sliding the metaplayers around the board until one hits their 'end-game',Image then the campaign wraps up and the three casts go into 'status-quo' mode.

Endgame Scenarios (Spoiler: they all lose!):
  • Science Officer Renewill get props from Murray who thought he actually was a dullard.
    1. launches his end game and passes through the gate with transports full of heavy equipment and scrambles his surveyships to stake a claim ahead of the consortium's only to find a rogue mining operation inplace, and embattled. He stakes an 'official' claim anyways then flees.
    2. following another faction through the gate a convo between his plowshare and the consortium's carrier begins with a quick point to the lease agreement and how he's screwed unless he stakes a claim to an asteroid of Blah composition here and now; followed by a "Is that so?" and him ejecting the fragments from his hold creating an artificial asteroid of that precise composition; and the obligatory running fight.
  • Mr Murray
    1. Breaks through the gate first ready to fight off the pirates, but finds the orignal expidition is already busy doing so. He joins the battle.
    2. Doesn't bother being second through the gate with an expidition except to concede gracefuly, concluding that he's broken even anyways and calls it a wash; without his fighter wing he does not participate in the battle.
  • Erica "the lass"
    1. drops through the portal with a transport full of construction equipment and supplies then heads strait for the battered colony ship calling for defenders.
    2. curses these pirates, jetisons the external cargohold she's hauling and engages them whilst the colonyship and her wares burn. (The colonyship burns either way because it would look cool.)
    ^ - -^
    </br><h2>Final Conditions</h2></br>
    A short little news article about how {a colony ship intercepted/collided with an equally ancient mining vessel on its return trip after having stripped a system of it's ores. And in the intervening decades these lost ships have drifted near enough to various gates to be detected but not long enough to be intercepted until now- by pirates excited by the prospect of all that ore.} is all that marks the loss of this 'Forsaken' colony to the outside.

    Follow-up articles may include:
    • Investigation has found that the mining vessel locked on to the colony's AVS transponder, mistaking it for it's destination. The lazy bastards who designed it's flight sysyem assumed that it would not encounter any ship and didn't bother with target identification.
      Troublingly the consortiums' previously public data shows that there are dozens of the Nemesis class mining ships unaccounted for.
    • Survivors of the lost colony are now wealthy from mineral exports; however the CEO of this mining concern, E. Arrhenius (ə-rē'nē-əs) mourns the recent loss of her distant family.
      The phenominal sucess of this concern continues despite a number of competing claims on the ore itself.
    • Yjere mining consortium's court battle to take control of the mineral rights citing historical ownership of the lost mining vessel has taken a twist for the bizzare today. The Lloyd's of Longon, the ancient consortium that insured both ships, counter-sued the consortium for the insurance paid plus intrest, now that the ships have been recovered invalidating the original claims made.
      Lloyd's has also indicated that they will also pursue damages on behalf of the descendants of their clients citing investigations into other ancient collisions that have conclusively proven that this type of mining vessel was built with wonton disregard for the health and safety of any ship or planet emitting any signal between 10 kHz and 12 gHz.
      Lloyd's official comment for why this second claim hasn't been filed yet: "One step at a time."
    • New exploratory company begins seeding darkspace with observation outposts. Chief Science Officer Rene explains that in darkspace it is possible to observe things without interference, and because of the economic isolation from developed systems these gates have not yet been studied and exploited to their fullest potential.
      When asked to elaborate he replied with infectious laughter.
    {Under construcion}
    Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:00 pm, Back in an hour. wrote:Had to take a food break; posting now because I want some feedback and for the automatic logout to not delete my work.
    [...]
    Yes, I do know how to use the save feature.
    Edited: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:04 pm, Back in an hour. wrote:Forgot this is a garbage night, will need another hour.
    edited: Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:00 pm, Grrr wrote:^ ><^ I use SVG, screw IE, FireFox renders it fine and the images are both clearer and smaller.
    I'll reformat the images and upload in the morning. I need to rest.
    edited: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:02 am wrote:No intuitively animated SVGs here, relying on plain old static images and text now.
    • rR
    • bB
    • gG
Well, that's a silly bug. {r,R|b,B|g,G} should not be on seperate lines, but the use of <Span></Span> closes list items, and I don't have access to the <li> tag to workd around that.[/quote]
Stand by. wrote:I think I'm done for now, will edit as needed.
Fixed some typos and changed up the reading order
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Last edited by snow_Cat on Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:32 am, edited 15 times in total.
chuck_starchaser
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Sounds brilliant so far; but I still don't get what the circles represent. I hope the rest will be mission examples and outcomes and how they relate to the bubbles and thin/thick and bright/dark arrows.
And thanks for reminding me; my body needs food, too.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

More concretely, what I don't understand is, if those circles are stages to the attainment of the goals of the players, how does success in executing a mission for A and failure in executing a mission for B lead to the same state. Or, is someone else running the mission you would have been running for A, and succeeding at it, as you run a mission for B and fail? IOW, is there a synchronicity implied? When you run a mission for C, do missions for A and B start automatically at the same time, played by an AI?
If not, I don't understand a thing. If yes, I'm confused.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by Dawe »

Sounds like a real cool idea! I would love to see these kind of open/interactive campaigns in the game!

Just some practical questions:

How doable is it?
If doable, then by who?
And if it's done how easy will it be to make a frame to create more campaigns from?

I really don't want to be negative, but as chuck has pointed out, serveral times, we need to focus on what we actually can achieve so the project somewhere.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Well, currently, the python mission-building functions can create and save variables that go into the save-game. All such variables are global to all missions and distinguished by name. So far, all this seems to amount to, on the technical side, is, as per the example, three campaigns, and three "advancement state" variables. The only technical novelty, from an implementation POV is that the three campaigns see and use each other's variable. As such, there would be no new technical requirements to implement something like this; it could all be scripted right now, using the current functionality.

I think I'm starting to get the jest of it.
So, whenever you take a mission for metaplayer A, you're executing A's campaign; not necessarily interacting with B or C's campaigns. But if you take an "impediment" mission from A (e.g.: attack B's supply ships), then, on success, you not only advance A's state variable, but set B's state back (either to a previous state, or to a new state, presumably further from B's end-game). Getting this right?
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

Yes.

Perhaps if changed to a top-down layout for the metagameboard, this would have been clearer. (I know better than to use radial symmetry in a diagram but this is the actual tool I use.)

And the AI does run versions of the other campaigns simultaneously including impediment missions; however they don't move the other plots along (that the player doesn't miss out).
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

snow_Cat wrote:Yes.

Perhaps if changed to a top-down layout for the metagameboard, this would have been clearer. (I know better than to use radial symmetry in a diagram but this is the actual tool I use.)
I was just thinking it would be nice to write a graphical tool for campaign editing, looking like a state diagram like that.
And the AI does run versions of the other campaigns simultaneously including impediment missions; however they don't move the other plots along (that the player doesn't miss out).
Could you explain this in more detail? I'm not sure I understand how there could be simultaneous missions and this NOT result in the states of the other campaigns changing; unless we assume they fail... ?
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

Mock missions:
In the background the AI will run the other parts of the operation that the player is not responsible for; More accurately there will be ships trying to accomplish these goals, but they are just clutter designed to give the clear impression that this is something much bigger than the player; these ships may accumilate enhancing the appearance of escilating conflict.

Similarly, the other campaigns will run too, however care should be made to make background elements respawn, rather than spawn at interval or node event.

Remember how in WingCommander you could listen in on the other briefings and then during your mission take a 'detour' and hit a kilrathi transport, or help fend off enemy patrols not a part of your particular assignment.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

snow_Cat wrote:Mock missions:
In the background the AI will run the other parts of the operation that the player is not responsible for; More accurately there will be ships trying to accomplish these goals, but they are just clutter designed to give the clear impression that this is something much bigger than the player; these ships may accumilate enhancing the appearance of escilating conflict.
Gottcha.
Similarly, the other campaigns will run too, however care should be made to make background elements respawn, rather than spawn at interval or node event.
Got me.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

^- - ^ It's just a scripting thing; if we aren't carful about how much action there is in the background, it will overrun the system.

^- - ^ Ensuring that only one instance of every 'assignment' exists, and that only one set of these assignments (from each campaign) is running we avoid pushing the player onto from the sidelines, into the bleachers and into the parking-lot across town.

^ - - ^ Essentially we don't want these AI ships working around the player to interfere with the player's mission too badly.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Ahhh, avoiding multiple instances of the same enemies and so on... Gottcha.

So, what it this "tool" you keep mentioning you use? Something you wrote?
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

^- - ^ The metagameboard is the tool I am referring to.
^ - - ^ I didn't write it, though I have developed it from the mission-tree system in the original Wing-Commander into somthing I would use with my gaming group, back when I still had a gaming group.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

It would be nice having a graphical system for designing and editing campaigns.
Campaigns are essentially state machines.
Okay; no; well; yes; each campaign is a state machine in terms of code; but there may be more than one thread executing that code, each metaplayer being a thread. But no; because the campaign state machine is not the same for each metaplayer; and state changes happen on different conditions for each meta-player.
I wonder why this programming paradigm doesn't occur more often in programming.
We should suggest it to the Quantum Intercal guys. They could change the language
model so that a program always begins execution at three places simultaneously,
but the three virtual processors don't have the exact same microinstruction set, or
it's implemented differently; nor do they necessarily have the same (or compatible)
goals. :D
I'm still trying to grasp this thing, frankly, tho... First I thought there was a single pointer running around the state machine, representing the player's state; but now I get that there's one piece for each metaplayer, plus maybe another for the player... But you also said that each bubble is an achievement, or zone of control. If so, each metaplayer has not one piece that moves, but a jar full of beans that they place on new bubbles, sort of like expanding a territory. No?
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

^ - - ~ Well, yes and no.

^- - ^ Calling this a state-machine with a thread for each metaplayer is a very good way of describing it, But the player doesn't appear in the metagame, except as an abstract force that says your plan met with {success, failure, delays} to the metaplayers; switching them between nodes like a R/W/En pulse on a DRAM chip.

^ - -^ It fakes the whole jar of beans by laying out the metaplayer's grand schemes in their slice of the board, but then focusing the metaplayer's attention on one 'node' (or step) at the threshold of completion (which is all the player will interact with at a given time anyways.)

^ - -^ Nodes not the focus of a metaplayer are assumed to be completed or irrelevant, (and nodes downstream dependant on the current node in some way).
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

snow_Cat wrote:^ - -^ Nodes not the focus of a metaplayer are assumed to be completed or irrelevant, (and nodes downstream dependant on the current node in some way).
AHA!
So, there are quantum entanglements between some of the nodes...
I thought it had to be so. Metaplayer C's nodes are too far away from the region of interactions between A and B... So, there's wires running under the board?

EDIT:
Or maybe each node's scenario is defined as if there were wires under the board?

EDIT2:
Well, now that (I think) I'm starting to understand this game metaprogramming scheme, as
much as I'm starting to like it, I'm lost as to what exactly it does for us in the big picture. This is a way to basically represent parallel quests with inter-dependencies that allow the player choices at almost every step of the way, including convoluted paths, all the while producing convincing results. But from the point of view of the problem of reconciliation of campaign branches, it does nothing of the sort. This 3-way campaign ends in 1 of 3 possible ways. It can stand pretty well on its own as a side-plot; but only as long as there are no greater consequences from those outcomes; right?
The original problem I criticized about branches was that they were hard to reconcile. That only applies to branches that need to be reconciled in order to advance the main plot, of course. Case in point was when CaptinCocksniff wanted a branch for the P3 story such that the player could join a group of pilots deserting from the Confed. At what point does a branch like that re-merge?, --was my question. Doesn't seem easy for the player to be able to "finish" the military stint campaign any time soon; and the further a reconciliation gets pushed, the further the plot remains bifurcated, and requiring twice as much work per unit of game-time.
So, the biggest problem with branches ***in the main plot*** is that they have to be reconciled ASAP.
And then one could say "how about something in-between?: have the outcome change not future plots, but rather just subtle way in which characters speak to the player, depending on the player's choices."
The problem with that is that it's even worse: It means writing dialogues in multiple ways depending on some stored variables, which is a lot of work and complications, and doesn't really do much for player enjoyment. The player, after all, only experiences one of the possible dialogues, and doesn't even suspect that there were alternative dialogues that could have come up had their choices been different. It's almost all for nothing.
Last edited by chuck_starchaser on Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

Chuck, you've worked witih control systems; there are always hidden wires under the board. ^ -u-^
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Very true. Lottsa them. :)

I was still editing my last post; check it out.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

Macbeth wrote:[...]
Thou comest to use thy tongue; thy story quickly.
While it is true that this type of design does create a wildly branching gameflow, the design of the end-game scenarios are such that there is not that great a variation in outcome:
  • Rene dumps the consortium and plots to intercept 'things' in the darkspace far betwen stars.
  • Murry has no 'company' of fighters and kinda bums arond the sector for a bit
  • Erica 'holds the fort' while the original expidition licks its wounds and prepares to hunt for another possible lost colony.
  • the supporting cast resolves into a self-neutralizing cloud of political entanglement.
This allows a number of larger branches that the plot can explore from this known point.

^- - ^ It's not the what, but the how that changes. Ironic?
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Well, I'm thinking that, in this particular example setting, for example, what the three parties are seeking is not complete control or ownership; but just bargaining chips. The consortium already has the resources lease. If anybody else tries to claim the resources, they will sue; and the outcome of the suit is not known to any of the parties; and could take years of litigation. But by staking a tentative claim, they have a bargaining chip in negotiating a cut or position or both. So, in the end, no matter who wins or loses, they will end up working out a truce, and working together; and the post-goal-oriented extra missions for the player could, in fact, be as peace-maker, negotiator; and you end up in good terms with all parties. That would be a good way to re-merge the branches, I think.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by Dawe »

This is just getting better and better!
How should we use this then on the large storyline picture?
I would suggest putting some tutorial missions first (yeah, i know i keep going on about it :) ) then going on with snow_cat's new implementation. And still maybe just modifying the existing starting missions so they can fit in with what we aim to do.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

SnowCat is a frigging genius; far ahead of any of us; and like a comet makes a sideral pass-by every couple of years or so, and rains us with gifts; so you've got to get what you can out of him when the time is right. Look at what we've got now: I'm not even sure whether the graph system is more brilliant, or the example story he came up with to explain it; with well characterized players and an interesting setting.
But the greatest thing you can get out of all this is the inspiration to get into that kind of quality groove when producing your own stuff. You have to dream and dream of coming up with total excellence; to hell with conformism and compromise. This is not school here, where you try to pass; this is a love project, a labor of dedication, where you try to surpass, excel, transcend.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

^- - ^ You flatter me too much, this arc is but a single scene of the first act in a theater with an audience of one.
In the First Act, get the character up a tree.
In the Second Act, throw rocks at him.
In the Third Act, bring him down from the tree.
Jaques wrote:[...]
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
^- - ^ If we are going to use this example then I should start to fill-in the details that I've omitted to avoid continuity problems later; and move this discussion to the Content Development board.

Most of the elements are self-contained, so this would probably be a side-quest the player may stumble upon by accident, or by reading the news.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

snow_Cat wrote:^- - ^ You flatter me too much,
No flattery intended; just facts.
this arc is but a single scene of the first act in a theater with an audience of one.
In the First Act, get the character up a tree.
In the Second Act, throw rocks at him.
In the Third Act, bring him down from the tree.
Jaques wrote:[...]
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
^- - ^ If we are going to use this example then I should start to fill-in the details that I've omitted to avoid continuity problems later; and move this discussion to the Content Development board.
That would be fantastic; it's a 5-star story so far in quality terms, even if unassuming.
TV Tropes looks like an interesting site; wish I had more time to spend on it.
I'm not sure we CAN start threads in the Content Development forum. That was, at least originally, a forum that JackS created to move approved modeling projects to, from the Art Vetting forum; and only he had thread starting privileges. If that's still so, I'm afraid there isn't a forum for story development we can use, as the only one is hidden except for Red Pill editors group; and it's exclusively for UTCS, anyways. I could set up a forum at wcjunction.com for it; but it wouldn't be a good idea, as it would force people to re-register there. I think we might as well use this forum for now; maybe later ask www2 to set up a new one.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by snow_Cat »

(Defining the background elements)

Rene and the mining consortium;
Rene asked prepositions the consortium with a fragment of the asteroid stating that there is a super-massive asteroid on the otherside of a gate to darkspace that he could claim if someone he had enough money to launch an expidition. And the consortium not knowing where this gate was, and wanting hold on to Rene's science talent set out the follwoing terms:
  • Rene will be provided with the specifc funds necessary to start an independant mining concern
  • experienced consortium oversignt of operations surrounding the gate
  • repayment of options of these funds include
    1. cash, w/ 12% intrest
    2. a five year lease on mineral rights and mining operations on an asteroid
      1. on the other side of the gate
      2. consitent with the (250 kg of) samples provided
        • (ridiculusly detailed description of the composition from Rene)
      3. and officialy claimed by Rene, or his company
    3. direct services in the employ of the consortium
The consortium closed the deal very quickly rather than risk scaring Rene off with further negotiations; clearly believing that Rene was some nieve science-obsessed fool who certainly will find the asteroid.
The consortium's plan was to build Rene's company up to be this huge thing so that if he suceeds then they would mine out that asteroid, leaving him with a bankrupt company that they could snap up for a pittance; or if he fails, a debt that he would repay by working for the consortium for the rest of his natural and extended life.
The oversight was the idea of one member of the consortium who realised that making the claim to the asteroid first would be personally profitable; and what better way to find an opportunity to do so than to be taken on the way.
Rene on the other hand has his plowshare with a cargo hold filled with asteroid fragments; his wildcard to get out of the agreement with his company's other operations firmly under his control. As detailed as the description of the asteroid is, it didn't say it has to be natural.

^- - ^ Feed back?


EDIT: nesting error causing list to display incorrectly.
Last edited by snow_Cat on Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update, RE: a clear example.

Post by chuck_starchaser »

Sounds logical. My only remark is that this member of the consortium wanting to lay claim to the roid seems to contradict the
implicit acknowledgement the consortium makes --of Rene's having discovered it first-- by leasing the mining rights for 5 years.
I think oversight doesn't need explaining. The consortium AND Rene are partners in the business; they are both interested parties.
Now, if what's his name?, the other guy, thinks that he can prove in court that the partnership is invalid for some reason, and that he
can stake a claim, that's another thing.
And if, for some reason, he shares his plans with the Consortium, and they agree to work with him if he succeeds, that may be.
But I'm not sure that's too believable, given that the Consortium already got themselves a sweet deal.

How about this other guy being someone who is not part of the consortium, but having claimed to have been first to discover the
roid, but had no samples to show, so Rene got the deal. But this guy believes that Rene is wrong about the general location of the
roid, and that he can find it first, and make a stronger case than before? So he asked the consortium to hire him and they agreed
that if he finds it first AND gives them a better deal, they might scrap the deal with Rene on the basis of having proof that Rene
wasn't the true discoverer.

EDIT:
In the end, neither of them knows where the roid is, and it's up to the player to go far beyond where they send you in order to
find it. And then you can do anything you want with the info. Support any party you want, or none.
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