Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

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Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:03 am

Hi all,


I just discovered Vega Strike, which seems to me quite good. But as usual, I'm frustrated by not speed piloting and not being able to make acceleration-only courses as in Elite II Frontier.

As VS seems very moddable, but also as I'm a complete VS newbie, would anyone know if this kind of mod is possible ?

Also I've got to delve into VS modding as one of my goals is to make a game about my Hoshikaze 2250 Sci-Fi universe. I could make it entirely by myself or I could mod an existing game. So I'm searching for a moddable enough game to serve as a foundation and VS could be a likely candidate...

EDIT : renamed the topic to be more accurate.
Last edited by Mutos on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Halleck » Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:30 am

Funny you mention Frontier... just a few weeks ago I started an Elite mod for vegastrike. The hope is to eventually have frontier style flight, so you could potentially build your mod off of that. Come check it out, its homepage is linked in my sig, and the Elite Strike thread is right next to this one. :D

As for VS as a choice for modding... the answer is a big fat YES. I say this for several reasons:
1) You have complete access to the source code, so you can change the executable itself, which is not possible when modding proprietary games.
2) The internals of VS are well-documented and highly accessible (we tend to use standard file formats and XML or Python for scripting).
3) You have full access to all the same tools the developers do (mesh conversion utilities, batch scripts, etc)
4) VS has one of the friendliest developer communities you're likely to find, ready to assist you in your endeavors.

And as a bonus, we like to use open-source software to edit the content of our open-source game, so if there's a good utility we know of, we can help you with it and you can obtain it free of charge. (This is especially true for Wings 3d).

Also, any code modifications that are made for Elite Strike will be available to you for your mod.

FYI, you can toggle arbitrary speed caps (normally imposed by your flight computer) with the Y key. Also, holding the `key will perform a shelton slide, where your flight computer does not try to align your movement vector with the direction your ship is facing (allows you to strafe).
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Re: Acceleration modding possible ?

Postby Mutos » Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:53 am

Hello Halleck,


Sorry for the long delay of 5 years and a half to answer ^-^ At the time, the Hoshikaze project was going under and so I would probably have neglected to answer...

Now the project has passed through the ordeal and gone farther than expected. We are now an Association under French "1901 law" for non-for-profit organisations. We are in the process of publishing our 3rd short stories book and we have established partnerships with schools in development, art and multimedia for internships and yearly projects. We're also on the verge of launching an official paperback RPG project and a boardgame where the players will be acting as the crew of a cargo spaceship, with a time-limited mission to acomplish and semi-random roadblocks ahead.

So we're gaining momentum in paperback publishing and we're also gently steering back towards our initial "Stars of Call" video game, which had been set aside for too long for lack of developpers ! And now I've rediscovered VS and your big YES seems to apply better than ever ! VS seems to have progressed and grown over time, and I think both you and Hoshikaze are now ripe for launching a Mod project !

In fact I'll first download your mod and see how it fares. For now I've played a little in vanilla VS and I've been pleased with what I found. Then, the project will have to gain approval by the other members, as its success will need the right staffing...
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Re: Acceleration modding possible ?

Postby Mutos » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:59 am

Hi Halleck, hi all,


Oh, and by the way, I just tried to download the Elite mod, but the server seems unavailable. I took the link from your signature, which is http://eliot.bambi.net/elitestrike/.
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Re: Acceleration modding possible ?

Postby klauss » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:52 pm

I haven't seen halleck around for a while.

Why don't you try sending him a PM?
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Re: Acceleration modding possible ?

Postby Mutos » Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:20 pm

Hi klaus,


Thanks for the hint, I'll try. Btw, you're listed in the WCU page, I've downloaded Privateer Gemini Gold 1.03 and I've got a hard time understanding the relationship between PGG and Privateer Remake. I finally understood that PR allowed much leeway for deviation from the WCU while PGG remained in the same universe.
Last edited by Mutos on Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Acceleration modding possible ?

Postby klauss » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:32 pm

That's pretty much it: PGG tries to reproduce the original, only allowing largely cosmetic fixes, while PR (and PU, a follow-up of PR that has received a lot more attention lately) accepts other kinds of enhancements too, the most controversial of which that I remember was AI turrets (automatic turrets, the original privateer didn't have them, making turrets nearly useless for single-player).
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby charlieg » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:40 pm

Didn't PR get essentially split into PGG and PU?

For Elite-like gameplay, I'd suggest Oolite or (more recently) Pioneer.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby klauss » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:03 pm

charlieg wrote:Didn't PR get essentially split into PGG and PU?

Essentially.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:53 am

Hi klauss,


Didn't know of Pioneer ! Nice project of a Frontier remake and extend !
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:13 am

Hi all,


Oh, and btw, is there anywhere a "total conversion guide" ? I sure wouldn't be able to do a TC by myself alone, of course, but I would like to be able to specify it and organize a string of internships with game design and development schools to get it done. But that means in the first place having a kind of "low-poly, large-scope vision" of what's to be done ^-^ And that in turn means getting a skeleton to-do-guide and making some experiences by myself...
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby pyramid » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:37 am

We have a modding guide on our wiki, if that helps.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:25 am

Hi pyramid,


Thanks for the link, I've already read some of the FAQ and pageslisted here, I'll keep on. But I was thinking about a general plan, the "low-poly, large-scope vision" of what to do to make a TC.

If I have the time and leisure to do so, I'll try to take notes when I experiment and hopefully I may be able to devise one ^-^ No guarantee though, time is the matter, as usual !

So, to begin with, allow me one other question : is there somewhere an "empty" version of VS with a list of mandatory files, where I could add TC files ?

Also, I've just noticed in the "All MODs page" something titled as VegaScape (Pax Imperium: The Gathering) that seems to be a solo effort at bulding a TC. If I may get in touch with the developer, he may have attempted or even maybe achieved something like that on his own. Which leads me to another question : at which point in development may/must I add a section to the "All MODs page" ?
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby pyramid » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:37 am

Mutos wrote:But I was thinking about a general plan, the "low-poly, large-scope vision" of what to do to make a TC.

I fear, there is no such plan documented.

Mutos wrote:If I have the time and leisure to do so, I'll try to take notes when I experiment and hopefully I may be able to devise one ^-^ No guarantee though, time is the matter, as usual !

That would be fantastic, give and take RL. :roll:

Mutos wrote:So, to begin with, allow me one other question : is there somewhere an "empty" version of VS with a list of mandatory files, where I could add TC files ?

There is not. Maybe you could reverse-engineer it by deleting the data folder, but my guess is that it would be very time consuming.
Many files are required, but also need to be modded to fit your universe, e.g. units.csv, master_part_list.csv, milky_way.xml, python modules, ...)

Mutos wrote:If I may get in touch with the developer, he may have attempted or even maybe achieved something like that on his own.

You may and you maybe should. Our engine is open and so is it what you do with it.

Mutos wrote:Which leads me to another question : at which point in development may/must I add a section to the "All MODs page" ?

There is no golder rule. My gut feeling tells me that it would be good to have at least a first prototype and a web page organized around development and contribution.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:55 am

Hi pyramid,


Thanks for the reply, it answers much of my questions !

Unfortunately the main question "is there somewhere an "empty" version of VS with a list of mandatory files, where I could add TC files ?" has an unpleasant answer ^-^

But as that'll be needed, I'll reformulate it into : "is there somewhere a list of the mandatory files that need to be present in a TC mod ?", so I can try to build it as you suggest, but reducing the time needed by smart guessing which files are or not mandatory. Your answer gives me a first short-list.

At this point, I've opened a more focused topic on just building the simplest possible testable universe : a 2-systems universe with 2 planets and 1 station per system and a jump link between both systems. This way I will be able to report progress and ask focused questions without hindering this more general topic.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby klauss » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:25 am

pyramid wrote:
Mutos wrote:So, to begin with, allow me one other question : is there somewhere an "empty" version of VS with a list of mandatory files, where I could add TC files ?

There is not. Maybe you could reverse-engineer it by deleting the data folder, but my guess is that it would be very time consuming.
Many files are required, but also need to be modded to fit your universe, e.g. units.csv, master_part_list.csv, milky_way.xml, python modules, ...)

There was one, I think dandandaman made it.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:41 am

Hi klauss,


Thanks for the hint, that may be a starting point... but I see dandandaman's last post was in 2007 and he last visited by mid-2009.

So do you think I can bother him with a PM or do you have a link or an archive or something that could get me to that list ? You see, it's kind of a treasure hunt ! The Quest for the Lost Files List ^-^

Thanks in advance for any further hint !

EDIT#1 : while browsing all dandandaan's posts, I've found at least hints on the Database Files for VS thread, so I bookmark it here.

EDIT#2 : another one, I've not hd time to read it through entirely, but it might be worth reading : Data structure of master_part_list.csv, units.csv, etc.

EDIT#3 : and this is the third, doesn't offer too much answers, but some hints... Thread's called Wanted: Dataset Modding Suggestions.

EDIT#4 : might have found the one, if the link's still active, which I'll check as soon as it is recorded : Total Conversion base data. It dates back from 2004, but it might be packed of hints !

EDIT #5 : also found a Black Paralysis release for download. Here is the direct download link and here the forum topic.
Last edited by Mutos on Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:38 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby klauss » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:45 am

Try a PM, the forum will send him an e-mail and you might get lucky ;)
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Re: Using VS for a universe with acceleration courses ?

Postby Mutos » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:46 am

Hi klauss,


In the meantime I searched for his posts and found a few jewels. I posted them as edits of the previous post. Then I also posted in the other thread the two minimal datasets links I found.

But I'll try the PM, maybe he would be of a great help for understanding what I'll find in the archives ^-^
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