0.5.0 - Flying SPEC, then WHAM

[eracc]

I am trying to explore the VS universe now that I have made my first half billion credits by building up to sell AI cores. While doing this I literally ran into a discouraging problem.

I was playing late last night beginning to search through new systems and document interesting locations in my "log book". I found an Aera ice planet in ULN space and decided to visit it to check for a new ship to buy and save what I had done so far. I fired up SPEC with "a" and while traveling toward the planet was clobbered by something while accelerating toward the planet. I am unsure of the speed as I was not paying close attention to that. But I usually notice when I have negative acceleration dropping below the numbers that end in "c" as I always have awareness of the speed indicator when in SPEC. I did not see indication of falling below "c" speeds. I am sure I was not fired upon at the speed my ship was traveling. No battles were taking place between my starting point at the jump gate and the planet. But SOME object was in the way that my SPEC autopilot did not avoid and that I could not see. I am not sure how close I was to the planet but I really hope I did not actually slam into the planet itself. I was several sectors away from my starting point and had not docked to save. So, when I hit respawn all the exploration I had done was gone. About an hour of my life, wasted.

Here is my thinking following this tragic event. It would be excellent if there were a way to "quick save" in a sector while exploring like this. Like some other games I play where one can press a key combination that will save current progress in the game. Since the player file saves sector, dock and current ship information I would think it could save spatial coordinates in the event there is no dock. Maybe a feature for 0.6?

[jr_49]

It's could be a great idea. To avoid these situations, wich happened me too, i now always land and save the game after two or three jumps. It takes time, but less than do all the trip again in case of crash !

[eracc]

Well, at the current time I am saving after every jump if there is a planet in the new sector. This is excessively time consuming and boring. But since I do not have a clue what "killed" me I won't take any chances at this point. I'd rather not lose any of the exploration and have to redo it.

[eracc]

Okay, here is more information about this. My Nicander just made a nice fireball while trying to SPEC to an Andolian Trantor planet I had just found. It appeared the ship actually impacted the planet at somewhere near light speed!

When I am exploring and flying fast ships like a Nicander or a Lancelot then I tend to slam into stuff near planets while slowing from SPEC. Maybe I even slam into the planet itself but I do not know if that is possible (???). I recall that getting too close to a planet in older versions of VS, pre 0.5.0 stable, one would auto-dock at some point when nearing a planet. In any case, it appears that the evasion code in the auto-pilot cannot account for the fast ship speeds or slow down fast enough when nearing a planet. Depending on what is actually happening. Hmmm, I just had another thought. Since these ships are small and fast with a rather low mass, could it be a mass calculation problem?

Is there some way to log what is happening in-game (without running SVN with debug code ...)? I would like to see what is "killing" my fast ships.

[athomic1]

This one's gonna come WAY out of left field, but do you usually keep your cabin graphics on?

VS 0.5.0 has these nifty new 3D cabins for some of the ships, mainly the Rlaan and Aera models. You get the look and feel of a real cabin as you look around you, and you can see it shift and even shudder under acceleration. The downside is, it seems to soak up a little too much processor time, or something.

I noticed a little problem with the autopilot soon after I started flying a Rlaan ship: it would often overshoot the target and spin around to get it back in view. AP seems to have trouble with these little reversal situations, so usually I'd have to turn it off, and 'manually' decelerate to zero velocity before trying again. After a few of these, I wondered if maybe the cabin graphics were causing trouble, so I switched them off, and that seemed to take care of it. I pretty much turn them off and leave them off anymore.

I haven't actually got SMACKED like you did, just overshot targets. Still, I could imagine something slipping right by a "distracted" autopilot, so a collision might be possible, if rare. Of course, if you're not even using a 3D cabin, this post is probably little use to you, but if you are, turning off the cockpit might be an idea to try.

[eracc]

No, I am not using the 3D cabin. I turn those off as I find they get in the way of being able to see. I always just use the "vanilla" HUD.

[athomic1]

Okay, obviously that isn't it. What about travel vs. combat mode? I've had a couple of occasions where I got up to fairly high velocity, then SPEC'd to a planet, and smashed right into it because the ship couldn't slow down fast enough. That's the only other way I can imagine it happening, off the top of my head.

How often have you had this happen, anyway?

[eracc]

I have had this happen twice. Once when exploring new sectors in a Lancelot, the other while exploring new sectors in a Nicander. Both ships have a high base speed and both are rather low mass (I think). I did not really see what happened the first time, in the Lancelot. The second time I was watching closely in the Nicander and it does appear I used my ship to nuke a planet while I was in the ship.

I almost always use the slow mode, combat(?), when in SPEC. I can't recall which it is, but it is the one that limits the top base speed to under 1000 on most ships. That said, I do sometimes get a heavier ship, like a Goddard, up to 2000 and then SPEC. So far I have not crashed a Goddard doing this.

[Genghis Prawn]

I have noticed that such effects happen when I am piloting a ship with fast acceleration and fast top speeds. It is especially noticeable to me in a schroedinger . . or in a system with lots and lots of items for the game to keep track of. It is worst for me when flying around the sol system. All our planets and moons are in the game, as well as several bases . . add ships, asteroids and what else and it seems to overtax the pc. I don't know how many times I have smacked into a moon or even a gas giant planet in sol system while in spec, even in a little LLama.

Outside of the sol system the slower the ship I am in the less likely that overshoot or spec crashes happen. Except for the occasional jump collision.

[eracc]

I will be surprised to find out that VS is overtaxing my new PC (see my signature). If it is, well that just sucks.

I tend to suspect the game logic that trys to avoid crashing while in auto-pilot with SPEC needs to be tweaked. Maybe it is a physics miscalculation that shows up when one is flying these faster ships. Unfortunately all my programming skill is in higher level programming with database engines like FilePro or with web frontends to MySQL/PostgreSQL. I am not going to be able to help solve problems with VS.

[Turbo]

I have seen the symptoms described by the OP infrequently, in SVN. The few times I was paying attention when it happened, I had collided with the system's sun. One time I saw it was about to happen and docked on the sun (complete with a minimalist concourse), but when I launched I still had SPEC velocity and crashed anyway. So my wild guess is that some of the system suns lack gravity wells which would cause the autopilot to route around them.

As for the autopilot miscalculating, that always happens to me when my ship performance is too far off the standard specs, such as using the Shady Mechanic thruster enhancements.

[Rattan]

Well, in terms of gameplay, it's logical to assume that the shady mechanic's "hot rodding" is of questionable legality for a reason? If they were perfectly safe all the time, then they'd be standard items rather than something requiring shadiness in a mechanic.

That aside though, I've had collisions with something happen now and then while in spec. Not a common occurrence, and I assumed it to be an intentional gameplay element. The game is supposed to be an adventure, and that requires some danger. Collisions happening along busy routes *should* be a possibility. After about the second time it happened, I started flying out to some point in any direction not directly on a line between the planet I was leaving and my destination. Figured that way I'd drastically reduce the chances of smashing into some other ship the game AI might have enroute.

If you think about history.. as our technology gets bigger and faster, so do some risks. What were the chances of dying in a vehicle collision two or three centuries ago? So in the far-flung future of VS, people in the assorted space-faring occupations may consider risks that we'd find ridiculous to be perfectly acceptable.

Also, consider that here on earth in the early 21st century the autopilot is of only limited use to airplane pilots. If it was actually the best/safest way to fly, then there would be no need for actual pilots. I'd wonder if these collisions happen as often for folks that are actually piloting the ship at the moment?

I think the occasional prospect of an unexpected collision works as an element of the game, whether it is an intentional element or not. It adds an element of risk that is absent in most other games.

[eracc]

...

Also, consider that here on earth in the early 21st century the autopilot is of only limited use to airplane pilots. If it was actually the best/safest way to fly, then there would be no need for actual pilots. I'd wonder if these collisions happen as often for folks that are actually piloting the ship at the moment?

I think the occasional prospect of an unexpected collision works as an element of the game, whether it is an intentional element or not. It adds an element of risk that is absent in most other games.

I sincerely hope that if Earth and its denizens last into the far future without us nuking our planet to glowing slag we figure out how to automate ships for safely running at faster than light speeds. How good are your reflexes, dude? I doubt my brain can process obstacle paths at faster than light speed. It would certainly take a computer and autopilot to do that unless humans do some stupid things like genetic engineering our own species for stuff that a computer can do.

Oh, as for the risk you mention ... I vote for a configuration variable to toggle that.