Question about owning multiple ships of the same type.

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:01 pm

Is it possible to own multiple ships of the same type (assuming milspec and stock versions are considered different,ie:2 milspec or 2 stock) without having problems with ship data, assuming they have different weapon loadouts?

And how many ships can a player own? Is it practically limitless?

Different answers for 0.4.3 and SVN would be welcome. Thank you.

Shissui · Post by **Shissui** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:49 pm

The answer is the same for all versions of VegaStrike.

You can own one ship of each name, where milspec & stock ships are seen by the game to have different names (because they actually *do* have different names). Thus, you could potentially have 3 Llama (llama.begin, llama, llama.stock) but only 1 Clydesdale (only the milspec Clydesdale currently exists & you wouldn't want a stock model even if it were available).

If you wish to have 3 Lancelot fighters then you must create at least one new ship with another name; even if it is only a duplicate of your existing Lancelot.

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:44 pm

Oh well, guess my plan to equip two milspec Dostos(they have better reactors and oddly, can be upgraded with a better radar) for anti-capship and anti-fighter work will require some data modification.

So how do I do that? Just copy the Dosto entry (it's in ships.xml right?), paste it on the bottom, and rename it to Dosto2 or something? Will I be able to buy it like a regular milspec Dosto and will it be possible to mess up the game?

I like the Dosto's superb acceleration, manoeuverbility, and weapon loadouts. It's flexible before upgrading... but once you dedicate a weapon set it's no longer flexible. 2xheavy ion beams will cut through the hull of most capships at point-blank range (using cloak first of course). At that range, it is also almost impossible not to hit it.

I want to try out 2xreaper cannons(>7000 exit velocity) on the Dosto, but it's buggy(once you sell the milspec model, it gets reclassified as the buggy experimental model=50% broken), so i can't pull out the 'land on backward planet and reequip trick' (by storing those weapons on lousy ships first, but they are still expensive since heavy mountpoints are required)

By the way, can the Progeny be outfitted as a pure rescue ship? It has the greatest accleration so far of any ship I have seen but the small cargo hold casts doubts on its ability to that. I once have problems tractoring in a pod(actually, it bounced off my hull) when I have only 9 cubic metres of space available on my llama.

Thanks for the quick reply.

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:25 am

Two words - cargo wingmen.

Get a good capship (the Clydsedale would be an excellent choice but clear all non-sellable cargo in serialised_xml before you fly it), fill the cargo hold with your Dostovs and eject when ready. Then simply tractor the survivors back in.

Actually, scratch that. Just get a Clydesdale and target the bogey with your turrets!

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:49 am

Actually, scratch that. Just get a Clydesdale and target the bogey with your turrets![/quote] Edit: How do you use quotes?

Wouldn't using the pd_long turrets(Point defence my foot, those things are seriously overpowered) on the goddard be a better idea?

Regardless, I don't feel like piloting a carrier yet (too cumbersome to do so), 'though I might try it once I exhaust all possible things that I can do.
Maybe I can fit a single Dosto in a light cargo ship or a certain diplomatic barge which I have in mind...(excellent blockade runner)

That being said, what I want is to figure out a way to have multiple ships of the same type with different weapon loadouts for different types of missions. (Example:Heavy ions work great as blowtorches on light to medium caps ships, but fat chance of killing fighters if they circle around. Admittedly, cloaking can solve the problem but it takes time to manoeuver close to a fighter) It's a pity there's no 'garage' or something where I can hold spare upgrades (I have to use other ships and certain upgrades are bugged and can't be moved around) in the game. I would highly appreciate a safe(minimal bugs) method to put in a duplicate ship with a different internal name.

And how much cargo space do you need to rescue a pilot? 1 cubic metre doesn't work (and neither does 9)

Nice suggestion though... Once I get filthy rich, I think I'll try launching an entire squadron of fighters and bombers to destroy starfortresses. I think I can even fit the equilvalent of an air force of fighters and bombers in there, or a naval task group. Can't fit a planet in there though.... The Clydsedale has 10^11 cubic metres(or 100 cubic kilometres) of space while Earth is around 1.083Ã—10^12 cubic kilometres. The moon (2.196Ã—10^10 cubic kilometres) can't even be fitted in though. Which I think it is just as well or else players will run around tractoring in entire planets into their hold. A starfortress or a base however.... should be able to be fit in there.

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:26 pm

Well, you can use both .blank and .milspec models for two templates.

You can 'store' other weapon loadouts on other ships, sell the weapons you want to get rid of for now, transport your other ship to the base, sell the weapons you want (and buy up the ones you just sold in the process), transport your original ship back and buy the weapons from the other ship into the weapon mounts you want.

You can create duplicate ships with diferent internal names through editing the .csv files, allowing you to have as many duplicates as you want (although it will look odd ingame when there are 10 of the same ship in stock on different lines).

And finally you could nag the devteam to alter the way the engine works with the .csv files generated in serialised_xml so that folder supports duplicates of the same ship. That would theoretically be pretty easy, and they may even already plan to do this, but I suspect they have higher priorities right now.

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:18 pm

Well for the Dosto, the stock model is rather inferior compared to the milspec one (best possible reactor: lvl 1:1000 MW vs the 4000 MW milspec reactor)

Thanks for the input. So how do I duplicate ships? I have no experience in editing the ships.csv files. Should I just duplicate the entry and put it at at the bottom, then change the listed internal name(eg:Dosto 2)?

Well I tried to use another ship as weapon storage(exactly how you described and it worked in the past for me) and to my horror, my million dollar-reaper cannons got changed from the milspec model to the dreaded experimental 50% destroyed version. Even worse, it can't be repaired(Well, fixing costs money but it still remains at 50%, unlike fixable ECM systems) and is useless since it can't be mounted at any hard points. (It's equipped on the ship under experimental) Neither does selling and rebuying help.

Hmm.. is it a good idea to junk the 2xHeavy Ion Beams and buy reaper cannons instead?(money is no object) They seem weaker at close ranges though (overall it's better though, especially versus fighters due to the >7000 m/s projectile velocity) I like blowtorching through capships at close ranges and it is hard to be hit due to the Dosto's small profile.

P.S. Is it just me, or are beams more effective against slow-moving ships compared to guns?(maybe a lack of aiming correction lessens the attentuation effect because the beam path does not need to reionise/energise space dust along the way into plasma?) How do you calculate beam DOT(damage over time)?(the per second value shown seems to be quite misleading) Should beam stability be taken into account? Last, gun DOT is caluculated by using the formula 'Damage per bolt/firing delay' right?

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:37 pm

You'll need to open up the .csv file, preferably not with Excel (it truncates descriptions in some items).

Look for the Dosto in units.csv. Paste the line. Copy the line however many times you want copies of the ship. Rename the Key variable in cell A for each. You absolutely must do this! Key is the internal name, and will generate a different .CSV file for each of the ships you own, even if they are the same ship. You can name the duplicates however you wish - Doestkvsky1, Doestkvsky2, Doestkvsky3 etc - or according to the functions you plan to assign to the duplicates. Your call, just make sure the engine can differentiate between them. Cell C contains the Name. This absolutely must reflect your planned use for the duplicates, as the game takes the ingame name from the Name, not the Key.

Now, they exist but you haven't put them on sale. To do this, create the same number of duplicate lines in master_parts_list.csv in the root Vegastrike folder, and name each duplicate according to the Key value in units.csv under file.

Right, all done. If you used excel you'll want to fix the cargo descriptions using notepad - you can get a virgin file with the VSTrade user utility.

Now this will look odd - you'll have Doestkvskys of all these different names with none of them different in practice beyond how you use them. But then I warned you about that.

Yours,

The Collective

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:49 pm

Wow that was quick! Thanks.

I just checked back to correct my mistake on the Dosto's reactor. Apparently it's 5500 MW max for the stock model and 6000MW for the milspec. The milspec version also has significantly better weapon energy capacitors(72000MJ vs 30000MJ)

Thanks again for your help. Is notepad2 fine for editing?If it isn't, what should I use? It seems to be able to view and edit .csv files fine but it isn't in Excel-esque format (eg:cells and rows, not suprising considering its name) Will it cause any errors?

Hmm now I'm wondering if npcs will start using the alternate Dosto...( I think I just append 'Mk II' at the back of the external name and '2' for the internal one, should be easy to differentiate and it won't look so odd with 2 entries of Dostos on the ship selling screen) Just for kicks, I think I put this description in: Identical in every aspect to the original milspec model. The new name is chosen just to sastify incessant nagging from fighter jocks who insist on an upgraded version of the original Dostoevsky.

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:12 pm

I've never seen anyone using my GoddardMK2 (quad-Disruptors in place of Lasers, Laser mounts upgraded to light-medium, Heavy Ions in place of Disruptors, Disruptor mounts upgraded to Light-Medium-Heavy, Lr_Disruptorbeams in Capship_Light slots to match the turrets, missile loadouts in all missile slots doubled, all missile slots upgraded to take any missile type, ships with 16 AdvTorps in all launchers, description text:

"The original Goddard design is very successful for heavy assaults when working in groups. There is a demand, especially among privateers, for a ship which is capable of quickly and cleanly doing the same while working alone. With an advanced torpedo loadout sufficient to clear entire systems of orbital installations and significant upgrades to all weapon mounts, this ship is that vessel. The MK2 would turn the tide of the war against the Aera if the exorbitant costs involved in production did not limit it to roles in defending key systems such as Sol. That said, the Confed Navy makes a significant profit from selling these ships to independent pilots who are willing to pay almost any price for this kind of firepower."

...RRP 10000000 creds and I'm wondering whether that's enough...)

So I think you're safe. Not that it would make any difference anyway, as a) they're all the same, and b) they all use the .blanks outfitted with the .template fittings, which is itself controlled by the Modules folder, I believe. At least, my cargo escorts are always armed in spite of being Blanks and I believe the.template files are where they get the guns from. That's exploitable - you could dock, sell guns to yourself, get tractored back in your ship, eject, sell your shiny new guns... And so long as you don't have compatible weapon mounts you'd never know they were there when flying your Mule, Ox, Clydesdale or whatever.

If you plan to get a Clydesdale, by the way, you might want to duplicate that under the key Clydesdalebuyable and edit master_part_list to stock that instead. Why? So you can remove the cargo it ships with - it'll play havoc with your weapon mounts otherwise. The same applies to any other capships you might take a hankering to and 'arrange' to be sold at certain bases - otherwise you might get a surprise when buying under confed/Milspec/Heavy_Capship - just a warning...

EDIT: Have a bonus Tesla description. (It's handy as I looked up those files while typing that last post and decided I wanted Starfortresses to stock this thing.)

The Tesla is the Andolian primary basecracker. Slow and lumbering, this ship is nonetheless armed to the teeth and able to engage with starfortresses at long range while doing significant damage. The weaponry loadout and incredible efficiency of this craft is testament to how the Andolians truly benefit from the digital gestalt they share.

And my Clydesdale description (just stick it in master_parts_list.csv, preferably after creating the new, cargoless Clydesdale for sale):

The Clydesdale is the most expensive ship available for civilian purchase, but also the only vessel able to tackle enemy orbital installations at long range without the use of ammunition. This ship is able to transport entire planetary surpluses within its spacious cargo holds, and is excellently equipped to defend itself from hostile attack with the overside and underside of this craft covered in turrets.

I'm on a roll! The spooky (and slightly treasonous) thought just came to me that I'm more active than the Devteam right now.

Above all, have fun!

Targ Collective

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:13 pm

I really want that Goddard. Seems to be the perfect ship for long-range bombardment. You woudn't mind me copying the description too right?

Since I'll be tweaking the files anyway I think I should 'improve' upon the original Dostoevsky. Increased thrust, reactor, shielding and enough space to put in two torpedoes. Changing the amount of weapons would be a bad idea due to missing weapon ports in the ship model right? (not to mention it's overpowered enough)

Is this description fine?(If only I could write as well as you can)
- The Dostoevsky was designed with versatility in mind and rapidly became a favourite among local enforcement forces. It also enjoyed a niche among privateers, however its lack of staying power underscored its usefulness. The Dostoevsky Mark II aims to improve upon its predecessor by sporting an improved small reactor, better thrusters, shielding systems and sensors. Its enchanced missle bay permits two torpedoes to be loaded, giving the pilot a second chance to take down heavier ships. The chassis and internal components are also made out of lighter alloys, and hence the increase in mass of the DMkII is negligible despite having a heavier reactor. What is frightening about this ship is that it looks exactly the same as the previous model, presenting a nasty surprise to enemies familiar with the original Dostoevsky. Unfortunately, its increased capabilities also comes with a significant hike in the production costs. This, combined with limited production has effectively restricted the DMkII to the higher echelon of the privateer community who are willing to pay ludicrous prices for it. Indeed, pirates and Luddites alike are fortunate that the DMkII caters only to an exclusive clientale.

Would a price of 1 million credits be fine?(or is it low?)

By the way, what weapon loadout(consisting of normally buyable weapons) would you recommend to fit in a basic milspec Goddard? Should I replace those lasers with 4xion beams and antimatter cannons in place of particle beams?

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:49 am

No, I typed my MK2 out in such detail to make you jealous and make my fingers sore. Of course you can use it. But I forbid you to change anything, and must insist you respect my price hike to 27000000 credits. Why? Because the Confederation doesn't use these, as it's cheaper to get a squadron of six or eight MK1s on the same job. Torpedo loadout might not be quite as nifty but a heavy cloud of fighters won't take 'em out, see? And at a mere 10000000 creds that just pays for four and a bit, so the balance is wrong. Hence the hike, which you must respect.

Keep the disruptors. They match the turrets and main guns! And they have longer range than ion beams besides, as well as low range attenuation.

I put the ion beams in because the Goddard ships with all beams, and I'm just stepping things up a bit. What you bung in the slots once you've paid your credits is up to you, but the only other heavy beams worth mentioning are ktek beams, and the Confed Navy doesn't use them.

Don't forget the central lr_disruptorbeams don't autotrack. Small comfort when both turrets do, but that was how the MK1 shipped and I must respect tradition. So must you.

Shields and handling are left as they are, at least until I can get mass calculations for the extra weapon and missile mounts.

The standard Goddard doesn't ship with Heavy mounts, so you can forget the Ion beams. Keep the lasers - light Ions have terrible attenuation and range, making them less than worth it. Particle beams are terrible, the turrets will take care of long-range bombardment (as will the torps) so by all means add antimatter guns - five, six thousand metres at that refire rate will wax most threats nicely.

Now, about your Dostoevsky. First of all, you should never upgrade a weapon more than once. Secondly, capship weapons are reserved for capships - the only reason I have those nifty lr_disruptorbeams on my MK2 is because the slots were handy and it completes the look. I'd use heavy disruptors if they existed. Maybe I'll try ktek beams (but never on the buyable model).

Secondly, if you are going to upgrade shielding or reactors never do so by more than a quarter (the existing milspec model is cutting-edge for the chassis, so according to the law of diminishing returns a quarter is optimistic) and thirdly, this is a new vessel which is yet to flood the markets so you'll be paying more than it is worth by a fair proportion. Capacitance upgrades beyond this should be at the cost of cargo space (the capacitator banks have to go somewhere) and there isn't that much of it so it's not worth it.

1000000 is too much for that - you could get two Pacifiers for that price and that's a considerably better ship, even against your MK2, when fully upgraded. Ugrading it would cost a fair bit, true, and you'd probably be better off saving for a Goddard, but still!

I'd suggest no more than 50000, probably 38000 to take it under the Pacifier which has higher combat potential. The weapon mounts are already upgraded as far as they can go - there's room for giving it capacity for four torps but the vessel is too small to carry them...

By the way, you can add new weapon mounts. Part of the specs for weapon mounts in the .csv file defines where they appear in relation to the ship's centre. Tweaking these values moves them. I've never played with this as I don't have the software to know what to put in those values, but if you're fussed you could add a couple more Light mounts with a bit of experimentation. Anything more than lasers would probably fry the reactor so don't overload matters if you do.

I think you're mad even suggesting a MK2 for this crummy ship. Ah well, you're living proof there's a market, even for a ship like that. So let's tidy up that description a little bit.

The player may be allied with Pirates and Luddites. I'm going to replace that last sentence with a generic equivalent.

Where possible, present tense should be used.

The Dostoevsky was designed with versatility in mind and has rapidly become a favourite among local enforcement forces. It also enjoyes a niche market among privateers, although its lack of staying power underscores its usefulness. The Dostoevsky Mark II aims to better its predecessor by sporting an improved small reactor, more powerful thrusters, upgraded shielding systems and superior sensors. Its space-efficient missle bay permits two torpedoes to be loaded, giving pilots a second chance to take down heavier ships. The chassis and internal components are made out of high-tech light alloys, and hence the increase in mass of the DMkII is negligible despite the heavier reactor. Another reason to buy this ship is the identical appearance to the previous model, which presents a nasty surprise to enemies familiar with the original Dostoevsky. Unfortunately, its increased capabilities also come with a significant increase in production costs. This, when combined with limited production, makes the MKII a relatively rare sight in the spacelanes as only fans of the series are likely to be willing to pay for it. That said, the MKII can come as a nasty shock to the careless opponent who fails to notice the magnitude of its energy emissions before engaging.

There! Enjoy. And remember what I mentioned about balance - balance is all!

Octavius8 · Post by **Octavius8** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:55 pm

Nice suggestion. I realise my suggested price was a rip off once I rechecked the original Dosto's price.

I admit, I'm a fan of the Dostoevsky. I first took it out for a spin for fighter practice (read it somewhere on the forums) and it's dirt cheap. (Upgrades are not though) I lost count of how many corvettes(and sometimes mules) I torched at point-blank range without getting fired upon by my target. (and other corvettes help me more then their teamates due to misplaced shots). it's a nice ship once you get the PolyDuranium armour. Without it, the ship will be toasted by flanking shots. Bad choice for engaging the Aera though(and so are most light fighters due the dreaded autotracking photons).

I got the Goddard already and I was thinking about converting those lasers to ions pending your suggestion. Oh well, guess they will be bad choices. Range attentuation kicks in the moment the beams are fired right? (Not after a certain distance?) Currently I'm using it as long range bombardment(sniping would be more accurate since I haven't engaged heavy caps with it yet, where are those guys when you need to test out a new toy....). Those 4xLR_disrupters did most of the work though... (Get within 30km->Turn on turrets->Point ship at target->Shift-P->Space debris

) Apparently enemy AI(for fighters and light bombers at least) is not programmed to take evasive manoeuvers at long range(and turning off their SPEC) Firing the turrets in a forward direction seems to be quite efficient at dealing damage.

About the Clydesdale, how will the cargo mess up my weapons?

Personally I don't like the Pacifier. It handles like a Plowshare although it does have a respectable weapon loadout (Heavy mountpoints) The Goddard is both better in sheer power(no heavy mountpoints though, but the turrets and torps are deadly) and has better handling. The Lancelot would be a better in-between ship. The milspec version also comes with free 2x reaper cannons (an oversight:selling those two and the stripped down ship can earn a serious profit), but the small cone of effectiveness for autotracking needs some getting used to. Autotracking is also mandatory because the built-in radar does not have ITTS (Rather ironic). There's no need to spend much on expensive weapons. Excellent interceptor.

Not suprising considering the price of the Pacifier. It's a good choice for people who prefer bombers though.

The only use I find for the Progeny now is to launch dumbfires at 500-1000 metres. It's rather suited for the task due to its superb acceleration. Other then that... well let's just say the milspec reactor can't support shield regeneration well due to the rather overpowered shields(Why the heck would the military build something like that?) Nice for ramming fighters while taking minimal damage in return. it also slows them down.. aloowing a close hit with dumbfires. The stock version, unfortunately can only support a lvl 1 reactor. Oh, and I can't rescue pilots with the 10 cubic metres cargo hold. (experimented) Sigh, thought it would make a perfect rescue ship.

Hmm.. I'm tempted to fix the 'engineering oversight' commited by the engineers responsible for building the Franklin. Might as well add in the Pd_Long turrets while I'm doing that. However, I read that several people has problems with the reactor after modifying it. (eg: fluctuating recharge values) Is it safe to modify the reactor extensively?(I'm thinking it's a bad idea to modify stock ships) Maybe I should increase its mass, the franklin is just too fast for something that sports that many heavy weapons (not suprising considering the rather light reactor). So far it is the perfect blockade runner for hauling cargo. I'm wondering why a diplomatic barge would require that many heavy weapons which it itself is unable to fire without frying the reactors (Only for intimidation perhaps?). The stock version is even worse due to the level one reactor (can't support medium shields) It seems to be designed as a solo VIP jet rather then a diplomatic barge which is usually supported by wingmen (It's too fast and the shields too crummy) And why would a diplomat care to carry that many cargo? (1000 cubic metres) Maybe I could mod it into an interceptor and change its name...

Could I request permission to build another alternate goddard with 2xreapers, 4x razors and 2x antimatter built in? I'm thinking of building a literal gunship. if not, which chassis would you recommend? The Gawain seems nice and it should be able to severely upgraded without detracting on realism (It's an expensive ship right? I can't see any premium leather seats and upholdstery. 3 years of manufacturing should have yielded something better.)

By the way, what are your other modifications to the ships? I like the way you mod them while adhering to balance.

Recently I read the article on the Death Star on Wikipedia. There's a linked article at the end about the Sun Crusher(never heard of it before, apparently it's in the books) Most overpowered ship I've ever heard of. It can survive a glancing hit from a Death Star's (Yes, apparently they attempted to rebuild it) main gun and has a resonance torpedo or something that can cause stars to go nova. All in one small package of something that looks like a starfighter. I hope nobody ever tries to introduce this ship in Vegastrike or any of its mods. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely(ie: no fun at all).

targ collective · Post by **targ collective** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:42 pm

Before creating a MK2, familiarise yourself with the MK1. That's handy to remember.

If it can't take out a cloud of Aera, it's probably not worth buying in my view. But if you're a fan by all means mod it (just remember the balance - balance is all!).

Ions are heavy damage at short range. Disruptors are moderate damage at moderate range. Lasers are weak damage at moderate range. How much time do you spend within ~2500m of your opponent in a dogfight? Those lasers are double lasers so each is more or less equivalent to a disruptor beam. Similarly, the Goddard has a double particle beam that appears as one beam. If you treat them as double weapon mounts you'll see that the lasers give the best damage in a combat situation on account of superior range.

Half the reason my MK2 ships with double lr_disruptorbeams is that you can fly it and actually shoot things, instead of watch your turrets slice 'n' dice.

The Clydesdale, like all dockable ships, generates items in its cargo hold on purchase. Some of these are upgrades and weapons. The game uses the same cell for installed upgrades and cargo space. So it comes prefitted with every type of reactor and generator under the sun, cloak etc. none of which it should when bought by the player. These values are what the game uses to generate the cargo and upgrades it carries. It will only generate one of an item usually, but the game will randomly cycle through the firable weapons in your weapon slots according to cargo upgrades. I just wipe out everything but the cargo, but if you do that with the game's Clydesdale file you'll find it empty whenever you dock. So you need to create a new Clydesdale ID and make that sellable after doing the edit. That, or removing the unwanted items via a cargo wingman through the usual docking procedures.

This can be exploited to install, say, 20 mult thrust enhancers through ferrying to your ship from a base that sells them. It turns out the Tesla has no limit - mine accelerates faster than any ship in the game now, and it only takes two minutes to come to a halt on orthagonal thrusters. Great news for putting the hurt on the Aera, and the same exploit can be used to get extra mult shield regenerators etc.

Get a milspec Pacifier and upgrade the engines. You'll be pleased.

The Progeny was designed to work in swarms with heavy losses. Fifty of those would give a Goddard pause, and at a relatively low cost through losses.

The Franklin is a diplomatic barge. Fast, maneuverable, armed with turrets (the first line of defence and the only one that matters), the weapon mounts are more for the look of the thing than for actual use. It's enough for the other party to see a basic demonstration of the technology for trade, and the cargo hold is for carrying diplomatic gifts rather than planetary surpluses. The idea is that it's gone and fast if things go sour. Sending in a heavily armed ship like the Goddard as diplomat would be seen as bullish and threatening, but it has the mounts for the parades and trades. There is room for a more heavily armed version for when the negotiations are expected to go sour, and if you want to have a crack at modding it go ahead. Just research those reactor problems first - people have found solutions to them.

Why are you asking me for permission? It's not my model. Do what you want, just remember the balance.

If you look in the suggestions and feature requests section under Grav Miner, you'll see someone suggested something very similar. And was rebuffed swiftly, but with helpful suggestions on how it could be made to work. Don't worry. Most people respect the balance, and have little time for those who refuse to acknowledge it (not that such people are common).

It has a happy ending - our prospective grav miner took the point and acknowledged the balance.

Yours verbosely,

Targ Collective
'Respecting The Balance Since 1986'

Sunfire · Post by **Sunfire** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:56 pm

targ collective wrote: Because the Confederation doesn't use these, as it's cheaper to get a squadron of six or eight MK1s on the same job. Torpedo loadout might not be quite as nifty but a heavy cloud of fighters won't take 'em out, see?

This would be theoretical argument only but.... wouldnt the military use the Mk2 for Covert Ops/VIP's/Elite forces?

if one day in the far off future the economy gets straghtend out (excellent ideas on this front IMHO) you could have one SP plotline of signing up with the military and at the end of your Tour Of Duty, keep, or atleast fly one of these ships. (military plotline means low risk, as you dont own the equipment you trash, and they might rescue your sorry carcass after you eject...but also lower gains)

if you ran the military, cost would be of no object if you needed a discreet presence of large firepower, defence of extremely valuable targets, or movement of key personell... especially if youre the ones building them...

targ collective wrote: And remember what I mentioned about balance - balance is all!

the key to success of any great game