Yet another ship model........Camus frigate!

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:34 pm

Hi there. I got wings3d a couple of days ago and tried to do something cool, so I ended doing this model.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... i/Left.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... ni/top.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... /belly.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... i/nose.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... bridge.jpg

I think it could fit as the kkl&Andolian frigate Camus. No descriptions about this ship so it could be ok. I dont know if andolian&kkl style allow a ship like this, so please give me your opinions.

Notice that I intent to make the bridge area visible, wich could be used in turn to make a 3d cockpit if this ship is ever buyable. Actual bridge is only for demonstration and not the actual concept.

The idea of the ship is to be a fast turning(for its class) light capship with big acceleration, ideal for fighting large groups of fighters or do hit&run strikes against other caps using the sheldon slide and firing torpedoes at close range.
The main hull looks like a good platform for turrets, allowing fire convergion at the front and good overall coverage with just a few turrets evenly distributed.

Polycount as it is now is 1220. My inspiration for this ship comes from old robotech and star trek style.

Soooo what you think?

Nano_Lite · Post by **Nano_Lite** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:08 am

NICE!!!!! Though, you SHOULD consider Levels of Detail, especially considering that high polycount....

Anyways, nice work...never expected to see actual chairs on the bridge...that kinda adds a level of scale to the thing. O_O

GAlex · Post by **GAlex** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:20 pm

1220 is low poly for a frigate ... not high.

nice, kinda like being on the bridge.

Oblivion · Post by **Oblivion** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:30 am

oooh.

looks andolian alright. Well go on, try to texture it. The moe practice you have in texturing your own ships the better. And yup 1k is a pretty low polycount. I think LOD's are only in order for models with a polycount of 3k above. I'm worried about details tho. A ship this big would look too bad up close without enough details. But... it's all in the textures.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:34 pm

Well...thats the problem. Im stuck at the texturing part. Its 9 years since I last did some texture work, too much has changed.Im learning as fast as I can but I cant find a proper program for texturing. I have gimp but my hands are a bit tied with it. Looks like a program for drawing cartoons.

Other matter is size. Right now is a bit more larger than a mule, smaller than the clydesdale. So, how big a frigate is supposed to be? I didnt find one in game to compare. Its supposed to be a patrol frigate so maybe it has to be a bit smaller than a standar frigate.

And the proposed weaponry: 4xturretpdlong on main hull
4xflakturret (anti missile) on main hull
4xheavyturret bolt
4xParticle beam in the nose
14xTorpedo tubes in the nose

Enough for a ship for patroling duties I think.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:19 pm

oooooops! I just tested the camus in game with a pair of turrets... and the scale is really wrong. I will raise scale factor to 4, so the bridge will be too small to really see anything,I think I will remove it from the model.

Post by **jackS** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:10 am

light_gemini wrote: Other matter is size. Right now is a bit more larger than a mule, smaller than the clydesdale. So, how big a frigate is supposed to be? I didnt find one in game to compare. Its supposed to be a patrol frigate so maybe it has to be a bit smaller than a standar frigate.

For the intended Camus, a few quick thoughts -

One, as your next post indicates you realized, it was rather too much on the small side. When I did some back-of-the-envelope ruler+screen measurements, I got something between 160-320 meters in length (giving myself some margin for error there

). That's rather too small, but 4x that sounds good. I was envisioning something in the 500-900 meter range (varying greatly depending upon how skinny/stout it ends up being, etc.) placing the frigate firmly between the corvettes and destroyers.

Two, there are no exposed bridges on any current Andolian Protectorate military capital/subcapital ships. So, that was going to have to go away anyway. VS is rife with various type and degree of shield piercing weapons, and the Protectorate doesn't wander much into macho territory. Other similar visually open structures, such as observation decks, are a different story for some other groups, but for a group of people who may not see much of even their normal lives through their own unaided eyes (link overlay), observation decks aren't even a big thing.

Three, the only Klk'k-centric military vessel from the Andolian Protectorate we have any visuals for is this one: http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/Vessel:Nietzsche . Now, the Camus doesn't need to look particularly like the Nietzsche, but it'd be nice if we could start to generate some Klk'k-centric Andolian Protectorate navy design themes. I reccommend kibitzing with Oblivion, who has already volunteered to help with artstlyle organization

Four, you've got plenty left in the polygon budget department. This is going to be a large vessel. Detail, both in polygons and texturing is, against a backdrop of empty space, the best leverage we have to convince people that this is in fact a _big_ vessel.

Lastly, some more role clarification -
Primary usage: raid protection for convoys and logistics lines, with a goodly number of the vessels in service being assigned as the high end of system patrol groups rather than the low end of capital screens (anything actually large or important gets a destroyer escort). A responsive (for its size, not in the absolute), efficient vessel with good sensors and comm systems suited to organizing smaller assistant vessels, but one whose weapon loadout is most concerned with protecting its wards (anti-warhead fire) and dispatching/deterring/pursuing raiding corvette and assault vessels rather than armed for anti-capital engagements. (14x Torpedo tubes is probably a bit much for the role, fewer tubes and more ammo per tube is also happier for engine reasons).

Don't worry too much about getting weapon-loadout perfect, as such things get changed in rebalances anyway. What's much more interesting in early development is model support for good turret placement (PD coverage, anti-small-craft coverage, percentage of offensive turrets that can be brought to bear on a single target) than what exactly goes in each turret. Also nice, but somewhat easier to fudge, is believable geometry for spinal mounts, if such are likely appropriate, as is the case here.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:04 pm

Mmmmmmh nice to finally have a clear purpose for the ship!

About the role I was thinking more or less the same, but I thought it would operate alone (reason for so many torpedo tubes). With the mobile armed HQ role in mind I will start adapting it a bit (sensors,antena dishes etc.).
The Nietszche looks great. By remodelling the engines of my ship it will match better the style.

EDIT: Im moving away from wings3d, at 1k polys it gets too laggy for me.
I tried blender for 10 minutes and unistalled it inmediately, too ugly.
Right now im refreshing my skills at 3dstudio.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:05 am

News update:
Looks like I will have to learn blender (cryes loud). For now I started the model from scratch. Here you have its new general shape

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... nt/top.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... t/Side.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... /belly.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... t/rear.jpg

Its ultra low poly(270) and optimized,not like the other one.From here now I will start adding tons of small details and main sections like engines,hangar etc.

So do you think its worth the try?

Kangaroo · Post by **Kangaroo** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:10 pm

I think it's worth it.

If you have any probs with Blender, let me know. I'm sure I will be able to help.

Oblivion · Post by **Oblivion** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:38 am

Yup a simple model paves the way for a great texture.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:53 am

yes

by the way oblivion, nice new avatar image.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:23 pm

New pics!
This ones show the actual size of the ship, thats around 800-900 meters long, with a llama near to compare sizes. The little dot that appears near the llama is a box with the size of an human being.

An hangar has been build on the top, with its gate at the back.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... -scale.png
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... -scale.png
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... -scale.png

Hope you like it.

GAlex · Post by **GAlex** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:17 pm

verry much, always liked simple geometry.

as for greebling, try not to destroy the smoothness of your great model (i.e. keep it simple).

waiting for a great texturing job.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:00 am

Yep, I dont want to touch much its overall shape.

More work done on the model. Its starting to really look like a space ship.Never thought I would get this far

New armor plates,antenas and hangar interiors(sorry no pics for the last,still too ugly to show).

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... us-top.png
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... -belly.png

Kangaroo · Post by **Kangaroo** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:46 am

Remember that these armor plates willl be very hard to unwrap when textured. You might want to leave the armor plates for the texture. For now, the ship is great!

Oblivion · Post by **Oblivion** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:04 pm

Yep, and those armor plates could easily be done in texture too with lines on smooth surfaces.

Here's an example (An AFF ship I made

):

Most of the surfaces are completely flat, for easier unwrapping. Adding bumpmaps (wether pre-baked or applied at render time) will take care of the slight extrusion of armor plates.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:08 pm

You both are right, unwraping can be a hard lesson to learn with this plates (Im very noob at uvmaping), I thought having some real geometry for the armor would help with detail at close distances, but the pic Oblivion posted makes me think I might be wrong. That texture work is great!

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:58 am

Just one question, whats the limit of polycounts I should aim for?
on the wiki said like 2k , but other ships over there go far beyond that limit.
I found lots of problems on non flat polys due to having a very curved model with very few polys, and the fixing is making the polycount grow wildly

It will take like 3500 to finish the ship with detail and all... do we have room for that number? and yes, I will do LODs, take that for granted.

Post by **jackS** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:08 am

light_gemini wrote:Just one question, whats the limit of polycounts I should aim for?
on the wiki said like 2k , but other ships over there go far beyond that limit.
I found lots of problems on non flat polys due to having a very curved model with very few polys, and the fixing is making the polycount grow wildly It will take like 3500 to finish the ship with detail and all... do we have room for that number? and yes, I will do LODs, take that for granted.

Use as many at the top level as seems reasonable without being decadent. 3500 for a several hundred meter long frigate is fine - depending on what you're hoping to achieve and what you believe you are capable of providing through texturing, you may even wish to increase that number. The Clydesdale has ~22K polygons (iirc). VS doesn't have any hard polygon limits (most I've personally seen in-engine was a 200K polygon model).

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:10 am

Thats great news!

Then here is the first change with the new polycount budget.
Left is old model, right new smooth model:
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... arison.png

And a new Coms dish I still dont know where to put
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... i/dish.png

A prototype model for an airlock (scale is right for now)
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... irlock.png

And a new friend I did to help me scale the stuff (also helped me to practise unwraping

)
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n278 ... friend.png

Nothing more for now. Hope you like it ( the new model not the little friend

)

Oblivion · Post by **Oblivion** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:27 pm

the little friend looks scary. lol

you know, in future models, some of the curves can be handled low-poly by applying smooth groups, but this model looks good enough. Good luck with the unwrapping, that's the hardest and most tedious job in modeling.

Dark-Blood-Hound · Post by **Dark-Blood-Hound** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:48 pm

Thumbs up.

light_gemini · Post by **light_gemini** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:51 pm

Hi everybody!! Im sorry there are no news about the progress of this ship. I moved to see my parents on christmas and when I came back I had to look for a new house for rent, move stuff, look for a new job etc. Very busy. There is some new work done on the ship still to be posted, I will do ASAP. Wish you all had a happy new year