Proposal for Reindeer Shuttle

[Phlogios]

I've been working on the reindeer shuttle for an hour or so, and I'm finished with the model. Let's see if I can post the pictures here... Nope. Didn't work. How come I can't attach pictures? ARGH! *grrrstupidforumgrrr* The pictures should probably be up later today at http://www.freewebs.com/dashriprock

Edit: These pictures might work:

[z30]

I've been working on the reindeer shuttle for an hour or so, and I'm finished with the model. Let's see if I can post the pictures here... Nope. Didn't work. How come I can't attach pictures? ARGH! *grrrstupidforumgrrr* The pictures should probably be up later today at http://www.freewebs.com/dashriprock

Try uploading it at imageshack :

http://imageshack.us/

It even generates the URL so you can embed the link (plus thumbnail) into your post.

[Phlogios]

Objects: 7
Polys: 446
Vertices: 501

Do you guys (especially JackS) think this ship will do as the Reindeer Cargo Shuttle? I will texture it if it's good enough.

[Kangaroo]

Objects: 7
Polys: 446
Vertices: 501

Do you guys (especially JackS) think this ship will do as the Reindeer Cargo Shuttle? I will texture it if it's good enough.

I would play around with the front and upper side, but a decent texture would hide the flat surface. Try to make it asymetric - perhaps then it would look better.

Remember that a good texture will make even the simplest ship look good when properly done, so a lot actually depends on the texture.

Good luck on the model!

[Phlogios]

I would play around with the front and upper side, but a decent texture would hide the flat surface. Try to make it asymetric - perhaps then it would look better.

What do you mean?

[Kangaroo]

I mean the bevelled middle cube could use more detail, or a detailed texture

[Phlogios]

How about lots and lots of metal-ish panels, glowing lights, faction logos?
I was thinking Merchant, Purist, Confed etc.

[Phlogios]

Where is JackS when you need him? Well, if you'll ever read this, I'm still wondering if the ship will make it or not.
@Kangaroo: I could try making the edges smoother on the cargo-part.

[jackS]

My thoughts -

First and foremost - you can afford a goodly number more polygons (even more if you make the thrusters less naked, but the number of polygons is currently so low...).

As to what to do with those polygons - here are my thoughts as to how to make the model into a Reindeer:

1) Cover up more of the thrusters. It gives a more interesting profile and looks less like duct-work
2) Have more than two thrusters (two primaries is fine, but some small secondaries would be nice) and don't face them all to the rear (rather more maneuverable that way). This isn't a need-for-accel type vessel, it needs to do a lot of tight maneuvering in frequent docking situations to shuttle cargo back and forth, so this can be made more clear with thruster placement.
3) It'd be nice if the cargo carrying area and rest-of-ship were more clearly deliniated (cockpit is already nicely done) - my suggestion: reserve the rear of the vessel for rest-of-ship and expand the forward half or 2/3 or so (up to you) and make that the cargo area. Making it an open-to-space boxed-cargo area would be a nice opportunity for further detailing, such as having a set of racks full of fitted cargo boxes (see the Kafka model for an implementation of boxed-cargo carrying in a similar, although different vein).

[Oblivion]

It looks too small to be a shuttle... if the black parts are meant to be windows.

More like a utility ship. Station repairs/mining or something.

Cover up the thrusters with some panels or something?
Add some antennae like protrusions/clawed manip arms somewhere... i dunno.

Wait...

A bit like this?
Sorry. Haven't got no grafx program here in the cafe but paint.

Just suggestions. Right now it looks interesting but small,

[Phlogios]

Introducing... The Merchant Reindeer Cargo Shuttle v.B!
I fixed some of the things you mentioned, JackS.
@Oblivion: I totally disagree about the ship being too small for a shuttle. A cargo-transport shuttle shouldn't be a freighter. Just check out the shuttle in Escape Velocity 1!

@everybody: The texture on the main thruster is only temporary, I wanted to test some stuff.





Is it better now? 656 faces now...

[Tseng]

Way too blocky for me, looks like your flying a cargo pod with engines strapped to it.

[Phlogios]

@Tseng: That's kind of the idea, It is a small shuttle, probably used for in-system trading. Cheap, but lot of space for the money.

[Tseng]

Well, by that train of thought it should be spherical, as spheres provide the most "internal volume" or cargo space per mass.

[pincushionman]

Well, by that train of thought it should be spherical, as spheres provide the most "internal volume" or cargo space per mass.

...but rectangular prisms can provide near-perfect "stacking," and would prove easier to load/unload. Plus recutangular stuff is stupid easy to manufacture compared to sculpted shapes. No, the advantages of spheres and cylinders really don't start to show themselves until you start dealing with granular or bulk cargo, specifically gasses which are pressurized. There is still plenty of reason to have rectangular storage, and this will continue to be true for the forseeable future.

[Oblivion]

I've no problem with the shape, that can be remedied with texture.

but...
I still think it's too small. Try to imagine a ship first.

What's inside it?

Drives, capacitators, reactors, crew quarters, cockpit, weapon mounts and capacitators, mess hall Especially with a ship with a lot of thrusters like this one has.

Where do the cargo go? And would it really be worth it to go to space with only one box of goods as cargo?

..hmmm.. looking at the model again. The front would be a good place to append cargo meshes. So it'd be like pushing it... just an idea again..

[Tseng]

I've no problem with the shape, that can be remedied with texture.

but...
I still think it's too small. Try to imagine a ship first.

What's inside it?

Drives, capacitators, reactors, crew quarters, cockpit, weapon mounts and capacitators, mess hall Especially with a ship with a lot of thrusters like this one has.

Where do the cargo go? And would it really be worth it to go to space with only one box of goods as cargo?

..hmmm.. looking at the model again. The front would be a good place to append cargo meshes. So it'd be like pushing it... just an idea again..

I thought this was an in-system tansport? If that's the case, it shouldn't really need crew quarters or a mess hall or anything fancy. In this day in age this ship is more like todays taxi or pick-up truck, and you don't see anything like that in those. Just the bare minimum engine, space for cargo, and the cab. If your going to sleep or eat, you simply land at a base or a planet. Even inter system travel follows that with small ships. In fact, the only ships I'd say that need crew quarters or a mess hall are capital ships you can actually dock with, as these are basicly mobile bases. Put simply, you don't sleep in your ship, you sleep in a hotel, Especially when you can get to anywhere in the jump network in only a few hours.

[Phlogios]

@Oblivion: I totally agree with Tseng, It's not supposed to fly between solar-systems and stuff. It's kind of a trolley, but bigger, that helps a big Freighter to unload it's cargo. And maybe for shipping things from station-station or station-planet. No need for mess hall and stuff. You don't see mess halls in eight-wheelers do you?

[jackS]

I'd like to hear some estimated measurements (such would make the discussion of whether or not it's of sufficient size a better discussion).
In particular, it would be very nice to know how big that singular cargo block is expected to be, so that one can make judgements as to the practicality of it being singular.

[Tseng]

A thought occured to me right there: maybe there should be standard cargo unit meshes for the different factions sorta like the first freespace game had terran, vasudan, and shivan cargo containers. Then you could create the ships with this in mind(think how cargo ships work in real life, along with barges, 18 wheelers, trains, and everything else). The more I think about it, the more I get the idea that cargo would be stored in large containing pods and not just "somewhere in the hull of the ship", and that the containers should be detachable from the ship itself. I'm positive this could work with the engine, as the engine we are using is the freespace 2 engine (if I'm not mistaken) and that ability was already present in the original.

[Phlogios]

JackS wrote:

'd like to hear some estimated measurements (such would make the discussion of whether or not it's of sufficient size a better discussion).
In particular, it would be very nice to know how big that singular cargo block is expected to be, so that one can make judgements as to the practicality of it being singular.

Well, assuming that the cargo block has the size of 8x12x5 meters (not exact numbers), minus the thickness of the walls, the block could have room for maybe 400 m^3. But the shuttles would not go alone between the stations and ships, but in a group.

[Oblivion]

I'm positive this could work with the engine, as the engine we are using is the freespace 2 engine (if I'm not mistaken) and that ability was already present in the original.

wahat??!

Noo. VS is a truly open-source engine. unlike the surrendered-all-right-to engine of freespace.

re: size:
okay whatever you guys want. I just want to remedy the current size-appearnace discrepancy in VS. Take a look at the Sartre for example, or the Dostoevsky.. those are big ships.. and yet they look small because of the cockpit::ship size ratio.

and then take a look at stranj's ships. Even the smaller ships ( insystem fighters, at about 20meters) have relatively small cockpits. That's realism.
Don't think of a ship as a car, or even a truck (as you said, an 18 wheeler).

Think of it as a ship. A sea-going vessel. Even the smallest SEA-GOING vessel is quite large.

And no. Shuttles are not rowboats. Pinnaces are rowboats, Shuttles are light ferries.

The current size implies something that holds nothing more than some passengers plus luggage disembarking from a liner. And no matter how you look at it - crossing the mediterranean on a rowboat to sell a box of cigars is not profitable or sane. lol. You need a decent sized ferry. Carry enough cargo and enough supplies to get profit. And even in 3300 AD, insystem travel is not as easy as hopping on a truck en-route to the market. Sufficient justification is needed for a ship to be called a shuttle - in this case: enough cargo to make a sizeable profit space to justify braving pirate infested space lanes.

Long rant. I'm just stating my opinion and my effort to actually start getting sips to look like ships ingame. So don't get mad, okay.

Anyway, if it's really what you'd like it to be, I'll shut my mouth. zip.

[Phlogios]

@Oblivion: It's just that... I don't want the shuttle to be the same size as the plowshare... If I would make the cockpit any smaller, the ship would look like a plowshare. Kind of. I see your point though. Give me some suggestions on how to change it.

[Tseng]

Huh.... That's really really wierd. The whole way I found out about vega strike a few months back was someone told me it was a mod of the freespace 2 engine.... It even said it was in the wikipedia file at the time, but when I went to look it up again before writing this post, it had no mention of it. How odd.
Anyway, no, freespace 2 was open sourced by voilition when interplay "went out of buisness". Apparently volition owned the rights to the content but interplay owned the rights to distribute it or something like that. To make a long story short, the license the engine is under right now gives no more ownership of mods to volition than the HL2 engine gives ownership of mods to valve.

[Oblivion]

umm.. changing the mesh would be a bit difficult already. Just adding strips of windows instead of the large panels would do, I think.

Anyway, I cans ee your problem. It does look a bit like the plowshare. hmm. I got no otehr ideas on dat.