Intro movie, thoughts on music

[pheonixstorm]

Been going over a lot of my mp3s and various new (or semi new) songs off the radio etc. Came up with an idea of an into to the game. One of a few, but this is the first I will post. The initial idea starts (in the current form that I have envisioned) the llama is battered and blasted, crashing into the planet below. Background music playing is Adele - Someone like you. Monologue (Dead Mans Ship) starts at about the 5-10seond mark. Scene fades to a shadowed table with two glasses, one with water and another with some greenish liquid, another fade and scene shifts to a wreck, then a funeral... you get the idea.

Anyone able to create a sound with the same feel and emotion as the one i mentioned? With or without vocals, preferably both so both can be tested to see what would work best.

[Deus Siddis]

IIRC, there is an outline for an opening cinematic in the universe development document as well.

[travists]

Sounds interesting, but what about copyright issues on the song?

[pheonixstorm]

wont be any, reread the post I asked if someone could create a song with the same feel not saying I would use that exact song

[travists]

Just don't use more than three notes in the smae order as that song! Someone copyrights a "Traditional" song in a country that dosen't require authorship as such just that noone else has already copyrighted it then can sue if anyone uses even a part of that song! (Thinking that kukaburra debacal a while back) But I do like the general feel.

[Turbo]

I can't find the intro video outline that was mentioned, but absent that information I have some thoughts and questions.

I like the concept so far. But, you left out the most important part. "Crash, bang, boom, funeral, and bar with sad music" is necessary to build the story, but by itself this will not get the player emotionally invested to play. We need a scene that shows the ship being repaired and refitted, with music that conveys resolve or at least hope.

The story should guide the narration, and the narration should guide the scenes, music and (if any) sound effects. Otherwise you do a disservice to our international audience, who might want to understand the story without understanding all the spoken words, and you get something that makes no sense, like when the series Firefly aired in the US with all the episodes out of order. Sometimes the narration may pause to give a particularly important scene/visual more time and detail, but the story-telling is the basis of the script. Maybe we don't use the "Dead Man's Ship" narrative exactly as currently written, but it's the starting point.

Depending on how the video is created (scripted in the engine or rendered in scenes), it might be both easier and more suspenseful to have the Llama meet its end in orbit -- attacked, damaged, and drifting within sight of, but not on, a planet. Crashing on firm ground, however unpleasant, is a comfort compared to drifting helplessly in the cold black empty with your enemies around you. It would also be intense to end the post-battle scene with the ship drifting, then the local militia chasing the enemies away, then they try to contact the Llama and get no response -- but only if the story/narration has room for it.

What does a funeral look and sound like in the 23d century? Is it a "burial in space" such as we see in Star Trek or Babylon 5? A graveyard with holo-displays like in Serenity? Is it an organ-music ceremony at a church made from high-tech materials and a sign out front that reads, "Evangelical Church of Life (Reformed) -- Funeral Today"? Given Duecalion's connection to the Andolians, maybe it is a virtual-reality memorial museum on the 'net?

If any of this makes sense, then the next step is to expand the idea to a movie-script format, probably on the wiki for easy collaboration. A real script format makes it easy to see how the visuals and audio play while the narration progresses. The idea of an intro video interests me a lot, but my experience is limited to a few short game-related videos, the most complex of which was PGG's new outro video in 720p.

[travists]

I'm a hobbyist animator in Poser... Not great, but should serve for storyboarding at least.

[pheonixstorm]

Well, I started this mostly for the music but have gotten more than I had anticipated To drift in the cold of space or to burn up in a fiery oblivion... Do we even have enough information on Duecalion?? I remember reading soemwhere in the VS history that one of the TWON/Ancient libraries did something to him as some cosmic joke or some such.. I will have to read over the master file again and hunt down what I can.

To think of it we really don't have a proper history on him other than very vague references and the Dead Man's Ship narrative. This in itself seems to either be an oversite or just a bit of foolishness as we seem to know more about Grayson Burrows than Duecalion.

GOOD GOD! I can't think anymore right now.. damn kid just dropped a huge stink bomb...

[CLoneWolf]

[...] We need a scene that shows the ship being repaired and refitted, with music that conveys resolve or at least hope. [...] What does a funeral look and sound like in the 23d century?

You just gave me a mental soundscape change, maybe the composers might use it (Disclaimer: IANAC! ): from the drift/crash, the music turns from battle-themed to the atmosphere pheonixstorm suggested; at the end of the funeral scene, music fades out, a bell tolling slowly fades in, then it gets crossfaded with a matching industrial-like hammer hit on metal (the ship being repaired) and the hope music begins.
Don't count on me for the music, but I might try the bell/hammer morphing, psindustrializer could be our friend here...

[pheonixstorm]

Full intro movie length should be what.. 3-5 minutes? Never timed an intro movie for any other game. Iknow some can be long.

[Deus Siddis]

Depends on the complexity of the intro.

If you want animation then somewhere under a minute might be a feasible target. If you want a slideshow with scrolling text and music then 2-4 minutes could work.

[Turbo]

You just gave me a mental soundscape change, maybe the composers might use it (Disclaimer: IANAC! ): from the drift/crash, the music turns from battle-themed to the atmosphere pheonixstorm suggested; at the end of the funeral scene, music fades out, a bell tolling slowly fades in, then it gets crossfaded with a matching industrial-like hammer hit on metal (the ship being repaired) and the hope music begins.

I like it.

As to length, a good intro video is like a skirt -- long enough to cover the subject, short enough to create interest. To pick 3 video intros I still remember, my favorite was ES 4: Oblivion. It does a quick introduction, inroduces some mysteries and problems, flies the camera around the city for a while to show off their nice graphics while they credit the company, producer, and others, then jumps right into the game. The whole time the music is building the mood from curiousity to fear then excitement. The intro to Diablo is the same, only the mood changes are different. In contrast, I remember Might and Magic IX intro as a great example of how not to do it -- pointless, uninformative, and if there was music I don't remember it.

Most players only watch intro videos once, so we want it to be worth the download (unless we put it on YouTube, to watch during the download). Ideally, we want it to be interesting enough to watch more than once. But I am hesitant to say the length should be "1 minute" or "3 minutes" until we have a script to edit, and if we make it interesting they won't notice the length. Unlike a commercial game we do not, for example, need to show credits in the video, except for a link to the project's online contributor list.

The PGG video took around 8 months for me to animate, but a lot of that time was collaboration with the project leader, who by the nature of the project had very specific wants.

I finally found the link to the Deucalion monologue (the domain change broke a lot of links), here: http://vegastrike.svn.sourceforge.net/v ... ision=8766
I will work on turing it into a movie-style script, for comment and revision.

[Turbo]

First draft script is created, more or less in screen-writing format. By my estimate, the monologue as it exists now would take 11 minutes. Unfortunately, I get a database error when I try to log into the wiki, so I can't share it there yet. If someone else can create a new wiki page, linked from Development:Audio, and put it there so we can link to it from here and those interested can work on it, I'd appreciate it.

Edit: OK, the file upload isn't working. I'll email it to myself then try the wiki from home.

[pheonixstorm]

yeah wiki doesn't work at the moment. So could not attach the file to the forum? Thats not good... will look into it.

Oh as far as the wiki is concerned that is a simple fix but I just have not had the time lately for it.. not the time to finish the new site design

[Turbo]

I completely understand. My own site is a mess because I had to rip out 1/3 of it after my divorce, and I haven't had the heart to rebuild it as it deserves.

I did upload the script file to
http://www.willadsenfamily.org/VSvoice/ ... script.rtf
but I think it needs the following:

1. Shorten it; 11 minutes is too long to sit through, much less provide images or video to accompany the narrative. There are some good things in there, but maybe start by removing the sister? Friendship and battle comraderie should be enough to make the audience believe they were bonded.
2. Start determining what we can show, still images or video, to go with each part of the narrative that survives the rewrite. For this look at what we already know how to do, and reach a bit beyond it.
3. Write those images/video as new scenes, effectively breaking the monologue into multiple scenes.

[travists]

Think I'd add a couple more of the directorial comments that exist in the source text. I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand the story is too good not to do a movie for. On the other, to be a good intro (assuming you timed it) that 11 minute figure needs to be cut in half. Problem is if you trim for a good length you loose too much. Perhaps there needs to be two videos? One a mid length to be played when starting a new game more matching Phoenix's original suggestion the other a prolog that can be chosen to play.

I'll work it up better later, but here goes:

Scene: Well lit and busy concourse. DUECALION (a genetically modified human) and Lauktk (a Klk'k) waring uniforms with Andolian Protectorate markings are laughing, talking, and reminiscing)
[Conversation detailing some of the historical info]

Cut to: Cockpit of spacecraft w/ space visable through windows.
[General launch related comm chatter and course setting conversation]
Camera pans from cockpit view to above and behind ship as it moves off.
Fade from leaving ship to side view of ship moving from left to right luddite ships move in and attack, short battle scene follows. Scene ends with ship’s engines dieing and ship drifts, andolian ships chasing luddites off then one engine on ship sputters to life and ship limps off.

Montage: hospital scene, funeral ship being repaired.

Cut to: bar scene at start of prolog.

[pheonixstorm]

There are some good things in there, but maybe start by removing the sister? Friendship and battle comraderie should be enough to make the audience believe they were bonded.

The sister was part of the friendship.. and depending on how you read into it a love interest. But yeah, for an intro video I would keep it under 5 minutes max. I don't even think the Civ 5 intro is over 3, will have to time it.. been wanting to play a bit lately. May do that tomorrow.

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand the story is too good not to do a movie for. On the other, to be a good intro (assuming you timed it) that 11 minute figure needs to be cut in half. Problem is if you trim for a good length you loose too much. Perhaps there needs to be two videos? One a mid length to be played when starting a new game more matching Phoenix's original suggestion the other a prolog that can be chosen to play.

Actually, we could do two videos. One intro for the game being maybe 3 minutes, a brief monologue. The other, an 11 minute full monologue trailer for youtube.

The intro vid being the more important of the two for the moment though.

[klauss]

VS needs a storyline, and that is prerequisite for an intro.

A (hopefully) engaging intro would mesh with the storyline, be a teaser for the storyline.

I like the concept so far. But, you left out the most important part. "Crash, bang, boom, funeral, and bar with sad music" is necessary to build the story, but by itself this will not get the player emotionally invested to play. We need a scene that shows the ship being repaired and refitted, with music that conveys resolve or at least hope.

The story should guide the narration, and the narration should guide the scenes, music and (if any) sound effects. Otherwise you do a disservice to our international audience, who might want to understand the story without understanding all the spoken words, and you get something that makes no sense, like when the series Firefly aired in the US with all the episodes out of order. Sometimes the narration may pause to give a particularly important scene/visual more time and detail, but the story-telling is the basis of the script. Maybe we don't use the "Dead Man's Ship" narrative exactly as currently written, but it's the starting point.

Crash... why?

Perhaps hint of a mystery to solve?

[travists]

Drifting into storyline? Anybody familiar with the "choose your own adventure" type books? That would seem to be the best way to do a storyline for an open format game, at least to me. The choices a player makes pieces together dozens of story elements to make hundreds of possible story-lines. Just don't make the story "mandatory" one of the worst changes from Privateer to Privateer 2 as far as I'm concerned.

[travists]

Perhaps hint of a mystery to solve?

Not Privateer's precursor story, but the little used, but wikified ancient races make for great story potential!

[klauss]

Certainly, not mandatory.

But a single-player game without a story is like a garden without... gnomes.

[klauss]

Not Privateer's precursor story, but the little used, but wikified ancient races make for great story potential!

Anyone wants to start a VS story thread?

[gonzo]

Drifting into storyline? Anybody familiar with the "choose your own adventure" type books? That would seem to be the best way to do a storyline for an open format game, at least to me. The choices a player makes pieces together dozens of story elements to make hundreds of possible story-lines.

That makes perfect sense to me and it sounds like a good idea.

[travists]

Here is a new storyline thread.

[pheonixstorm]

Ok, here's why I say crashed

At the start of the game Deucalion is ~28 years of age. He has left his position as a flight
instructor at APSWAK to pilot his best friend's ship, with the first launch of the vessel
occurring only a deci-year ago. However, only a week into their travels, a Luddite attack
crippled the ship and forced an emergency landing on an underdeveloped colony world in
Cephid 17 that neither Lauktk nor much of the cargo survived. A few weeks later,
ownership and insurance issues resolved, the ship has been moved and repaired, and what
systems that time and money could afford have been replaced. Likewise, in large part due
to his genetic modifications, Deucalion has mostly healed physically, if not mentally.

This is set out by the big holy scroll found here