USB Optical Mouse Blues

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:09 pm

This shouldn't be a long story but it is... ^^

With my previous computer, Athlon XP, Via chipset, Logitec USB optical mouse, one day, out of the blue, my mouse started acting up: Spurious clicks would happen sometimes when I merely moved the mouse. I used to have a terrible time trying to highlight a block of text, as the mouse would click by itself even as I dragged it. I blamed it on Logitec, on Via, and on Windows 98.

So, now I've just bought a new machine a week ago: Athlon 64, NVidia NF4 chipset, 1 Gig of DDR400 dual-channel, Sony SMU-SL1 optical USB mouse; and 2 200-Gig Seagate Barracuda's: one for Windows XP Pro, one for Fedora Core 4. I finished installing the OS's like 4 days ago, and finished installing most of the software I use yesterday. Today I was just copying files from my old hard drive, and, suddenly, out of the blue, my mouse starts acting up...

First thing I notice is every time I left-click on the Windows desktop background I get a context menu, as if I had right-clicked on it...
In fact, the left mouse-button acts like the right muse-button should, and the right-button does nothing; --except when I'm in Mozilla it seems, for some odd reason: Inside Mozilla right button works and does what it should, and so does the left button.
Anyways, as soon as that started happening I rebooted; but the problem remained. Not only that, but even in the XP screen, where you have to click on yourself (user icon) it wouldn't register my click, and I had to use Tab and Enter to get in.

About 10 minutes later I start getting my first spurious clicks, mostly when I move the mouse or the mouse-wheel, but sometime totally spontaneous clicks when I'm not even looking at the mouse. Even as I'm typing this post, often get a context menu popping up and have to hit Escape to get rid of it. If I have part of the desktop exposed and I'm moving the mouse, sometimes the spurious clicks result in selection boxes appearing. Also, I have auto-hide in my task bar, but now the bar doesn't come up when I move the mouse-pointer to the bottom of the screen.
I tried the driver troubleshooter, I reinstalled the driver, rolled back my Windows set up to a day earlier, and nothing helped. Then I tried rebooting in Fedora Core 4 and I get similar problems there, so it's not the OS...

I went into the bios setup and disable USB legacy support. The situation seemed to improve somewhat: Now I could click on my user in the Windows login screen. There were less spurious clicks, it seemed, but later they increased in frequency again. I then when into the bios again and disabled USB 2.0. Again, this seemed to help for a short while, then the problem came back in full force.
Finally, I re-installed the latest mobo drivers (I already had, that's the first thing I do), re-flashed the bios (I'd already flashed the latest bios, but this time I went with a later, Beta bios version), and it didn't make a difference, neither in Windows nor in Linux.

Am I the only soul that has to deal with this Optical USB Course? I did a search in Google and there doesn't seem to be any kind of popular Movement For The Abolition of USB Opticals, or anything... Jeezas! Now it's working! No spurious cklicks right at the moment... While typing this post I didn't use the mouse at all, the spurious context menu pop-up events diminished in frequency, and now I just moved the mouse, even rolled the wheel, and nothing strange happened... What's going ON???!!!
WOW! Even the taskbar comes up, now, when I move the mousepointer down!!! Could this be a heat problem in the mouse electronics?

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:31 pm

Indeed, it would seem like a heat problem; if I leave the mouse alone for a few minutes it starts off working fine, but after using it for a minute it starts acting up again... Thing is, the red light in the mouse goes to low power mode when you're not moving it, so I guess it gets a chance to cool down a bit, but if you keep moving it the light shines at full power constantly causing it to heat up? Just a theory, but the only one I got that would explain the mysterious phenomena...

CoffeeBot · Post by **CoffeeBot** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:03 pm

What kind of Logitech is it? I've got the MX500 (I think) and it's been working wonderfully for about 2 years now. My RMB is a little sticky, but that's due to a bad combination of kitty and soda. I've been getting irritated with the accuracy and movement of it for the past few months, though -- it's definitely losing it's quality tracking ability.

As for the heat thing, while it's a plausible explanation, I've never heard of that kind of issue before. The LED shouldn't generate enough heat to effect the components, I wouldn't think. Are you feeling a definite heat change, or is it just a theory?

Also, check our elevator board. Got a ? for you.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:20 am

CoffeeBot wrote:What kind of Logitech is it? I've got the MX500 (I think) and it's been working wonderfully for about 2 years now. My RMB is a little sticky, but that's due to a bad combination of kitty and soda. I've been getting irritated with the accuracy and movement of it for the past few months, though -- it's definitely losing it's quality tracking ability.

The Logitech mouse that gave me the blues for like 2 years was a "Mouse Wheel Optical", M-BD58 (USB). The current mouse giving me identical blues is a Sony SMU-SL1.

As for the heat thing, while it's a plausible explanation, I've never heard of that kind of issue before. The LED shouldn't generate enough heat to effect the components, I wouldn't think. Are you feeling a definite heat change, or is it just a theory?

Just a theory, but I can't think of what else would explain that when I leave the mouse alone for 10 minutes the problem goes away, but after using it for a minute it comes back... Anyhow, I took the mouse to the back, to the machine shop, and I filled both sides of it with holes for ventilation, and now it's been working fine for a couple of hours --knock on wood...
Sure a LED is not something you'd put your feet on to keep them warm in winter, but the thing is, there's absolutely no ventillation in the design. How does heat get out? No how is how. It just builds up inside ad infinitum.

Also, check our elevator board. Got a ? for you.

Ok, I'll be there in a sec.

CoffeeBot · Post by **CoffeeBot** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:40 am

Weird, about the heat thing. Never heard of that happening before. It makes sense, but, it's still weird. I looked over my mouse, and it doesn't seem to have any ventilation either, but like I said, no issues. I hope the air holes give it the help it needs. Otherwise, just tell people that the holes "make it faster."

As for having access to a machine shop (and knowing how to use it) I envy you greatly. I don't have any friends with that kind of stuff, but would absolutely love to learn some machining/metal working. I love modding things, but as it stands, the only things I can hack apart are software, 3d models, artwork, and the occasional PC component (you should see the old fan setup I had on my server -- sounded like a jet engine, but it was as cool as the day is long...if a long day is a measurement of temperature)

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:46 am

CoffeeBot wrote:I hope the air holes give it the help it needs. Otherwise, just tell people that the holes "make it faster."

So far so good. The problem seems gone.
The holes actually look pretty funky; you can see the circuit board through them, and it looks like a Halloween pumpkin when the LED inside lights up

I can't believe I suffered for like 2 years with the other mouse, and probably the problem was the same... With the Logitech also, the problem would come and go, but I couldn't correlate it to anything, like soundcard, or network activity; and it never even crossed my mind that it could be a heat problem.
I should have thought of it; I had a friend, when I lived in another city, whose mouse spontaneously combusted, and even left a charred, dark spot on the wooden desk it had been sitting on.

Post by **loki1950** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:32 am

i had a similar problem when i upgaded from agp4x to 8x wierd mouse behavior i got so frustrated i bought a new mouse cheapest MS optical took it out of the packageing and had a homer moment ther was a RF trap on the cord old mouse didn't have one and i guess didn't need one at 4x. anyway complex systems aways behave in unexpected ways.

Enjoy the Choice

Wisq · Post by **Wisq** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:41 pm

I would tend to think that a warm human hand sitting on top of it for ages would be more of a heat source than the LED.

Good that you got it fixed, though.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:51 pm

Well, I've further confirmed it IS heat: If I use the mouse a lot, for like 20 minutes it starts acting up again, but all I have to do is blow a breeze into it through the newly made ventilation holes and it works fine again for a couple of minutes. A warm hand could only take it to 37 degrees; a LED on the other hand, constantly on, and with nowhere for the heat to go, could accumulate a lot more heat. However, it could be the electronics too. When I design electronic equipment I try to exceed all required specs by orders of magnitude. If they say it must witshtand 1000 volts in some input, I make that 3000. If they say it must be 0.1% accurate, I make sure it's 0.01%. And if they say it must consume less than 500 milli-amps, I try to make it consume 5 mili-amps. But not everybody in this business works this way.

Wisq · Post by **Wisq** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:54 pm

Didn't know LEDs could get that hot. Anyway, it could just be a combination -- the LEDs, the electronics, and the hand preventing anything below body temperature from escaping via the majority of the mouse's exposed surface.

Post by **klauss** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:07 pm

A typical LED consumes 20ma or less. A laser LED, however, could consume up to 100ma (perhaps there are more powerful ones). Anyway, those aren't values that will heat up anything, unless very poorly designed.

It does sound like a typical wiring problem. Next time it does that, try playing with the cord (squeezing it one way or the other). Or the plug. If it changes anything, it must be the cord. All the fuzz you make to blow it and stuff could reposition the cord and make you think it had something to do with heat.

Or... it can be heat, and if so, I'll never ever buy logitech.

PS: I've had all kinds of optical rodents, and never ever had one overheat. It would be a first.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:00 am

Well, the cord is always in the same position, basically, and the phenomenon I've, by now, come to expect is pretty consistent: If I keep using the mouse for 15 or 20 minutes I start getting spurious right clicks, and, without even lifting the mouse, I can just blow air into the holes I made on the side. 1 lungfull of air gives me about one more minute of functionality; 2 lungfulls about 2 minutes. If I turn the mouse on its side, to allow convection air to flow (I made holes on both sides) I can feel the warmth of the air coming out at the top. I know nothing about laser LEDs, but if what you say is correct, about 100 mA, that'd be about a quarter Watt. That's nothing to sneeze at, in a small and air-tight space.
By the way, this mouse is not Logitech; it's Sony. My previous was Logitech.
What brand of optical did you use?

CoffeeBot · Post by **CoffeeBot** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:24 am

I just about always use Logitech, and I've never had an issue with them. Biggest deal I had was with my wireless keyboard and mouse, but that was a combination of interference and low/cheap batteries. They're my #1 choice for HIDs.

Wisq · Post by **Wisq** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:45 pm

I've got two old Microsoft optical USBs from 1999 or 2000 or something. Only one of them is failing, and only in the sense that the left button is losing its springiness.

A $20 Labtec optical USB has lasted me some two years now, despite being thrown against walls and stuff. (*cough*)

A miniature Labtec wireless optical USB kicked the bucket annoyingly fast, but I bought it in MontrÃ©al and was too apathetic to bother trying to get it replaced.

VegaObscura · Post by **VegaObscura** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:51 pm

I've never had a problem like that before, but a month or two before my last mouse totally died, it would stop working until I moved its base around a little (it was wireless), then a few minutes later it would stop again. After getting totally annoyed, I decided to open up the base and have a look around. I noticed that one of the black chips on the PCB was loose, so I decided to push it down into place, and try moving the mouse. That worked just fine. When I let it go, it moved up a little so that a couple of pins weren't touching the sides. After looking at it a minute longer, I noticed that the rest of them had solder holding them down, and those two did not, it was probably either decayed/worn/broken away (the base got knocked off my desk quite a lot). So then I decided to get out my soldering iron and resolder it myself. If not for my shaky hands, that mouse would still be alive right now.

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:03 am

DELETED

Post by **klauss** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:36 pm

Hey, Aslok... Are you a bot?
If so... you're the first nonspamming bot we've encountered... I think.

Zeog · Post by **Zeog** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:32 pm

It is a bot. The very same (useless) comments in four different (old) threads and a homepage about ringtones...

Privateer Ferrius · Post by **Privateer Ferrius** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:35 pm

Everybody do the robot!

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:08 am

We need registration captchas... hell, i've seen websites with posting captchas.

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USB Optical Mouse Blues

USB Optical Mouse Blues

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