[WIP] Modular Ships

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Hicks
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[WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

Wanted to try to get a list of what stats people would expect to be from the ship and what should be items/modules you need to install in the ship. Idea is that you can buy a basic frame and customise it suit your own needs.


Ship:
Base Mass - Mass of the ships hull
Internal Space - Area avaible to be used for internal upgrades/cargo
Hull Strength - Small amount of armour due to the hull of the ship
Max speed - Maximum speed the ship can travel at (may be a function of pressure, eg you can travel faster in space then at sea level, realism vs gameplay debate)
Hardpoints - Certain number of points to mount weapons, engines, possibly armour. (Different size hardpoints, small, medium, large, or maximum weight for component attached? to ensure fighter can't mount engines designed for capships)


Items/Upgrades
Engine(s) - Each provide a certain amount of thrust, used to calculate acceleration
Reactor - Provide power to the ship, used for shields, engines and weapons (possibly more)
Armour - Add more armour to the hull, helps prevent hull breaches
Shields - Rechargeable shield, uses power from the reactor, absorbs impacts/weapons
Weapons - Cause damage, uses power from the reactor for energy weapons (some require ammo).
Cargo Holds - Converts internal space to be able to transport goods.
SPEC drives - Required for faster then light travel in sectors
Spec Capacitors - Stores power for SPEC trvael, (capacity determines how far you can travel in a single trip before it must recharge?)
Jump drive - Required to jump between sectors. (large jumpdrive can jump from any point, mainly capships, don't require gate?)
Fuel tanks - required to store fuel for the reactor
Ammo storage - Store missles or ammo for weapons that require it(or just use cargo space)


Certain upgrades would require external hardpoints, while others require internal space. All add to the overall weight to the ship.


These are my ideas based on what is in the game plus a few i would like to see. If everyone sayss no to an idea i'll take it off the list, if everyone wants something else added i'll add it. I made a few comments and suggestions in brackets as well. I didn't add things like sensors yet or life support, but would people want to see them added? Ability to choose your race and buy a life support system for your race?
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by travists »

I would be inclined to think engine ports are intrinsic, but you can have different engines mounted internally. Over all looks good. My thoughts on sensors could be a thread unto them selves, but should be included. As should life support, if that is knocked out you have ten minutes to find a port or your toast! Hardpoints is a great idea, one huge missile, a missile rack, or a rocket pod what do you want? An ammo bay would be nice too, though would require some code. run out of missiles? reload! I also think large ships would have a hanger deck and upgrade storage.

edit: Oh! And crew quarters.
edit: At work so I have thoughts occur as I return to other tasks. Science bays sensor addons for specific missions /mission types.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Timaman »

This is a good idea, I'm surprised it has not come up already. It would be nice to get modular ships while keeping "whole" ships in the game, for those who cannot afford or do not want modular ships (for whatever reason). Something I would add is that as modular ships are made larger they get reclassified (light medium heavy etc) and that once ships reach a certain size they cannot be docked and you must instead launch a shuttle or something to dock with, leaving the main ship "parked" outside, then fly back do it in the shuttle once your done. This would probably require a "hangar" or "shuttle bay" module.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by charlieg »

This springs to mind when thinking about modular ships:
http://www.blendswap.com/3D-models/vehi ... yard-v0-7/
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by pheonixstorm »

Timaman wrote:This is a good idea, I'm surprised it has not come up already. It would be nice to get modular ships while keeping "whole" ships in the game, for those who cannot afford or do not want modular ships (for whatever reason). Something I would add is that as modular ships are made larger they get reclassified (light medium heavy etc) and that once ships reach a certain size they cannot be docked and you must instead launch a shuttle or something to dock with, leaving the main ship "parked" outside, then fly back do it in the shuttle once your done. This would probably require a "hangar" or "shuttle bay" module.
If i'm reading you right, the concept has been used in the 4X game Galactic Civilazations (as far as building the model of the ship) as well as various Master of Orion games (for designing the actual ship based on a certain size hull).

The idea is not w/o merit and if I remember correctly was allowed (as an import I think) in one of the flight simulator games I think. This type of complete modular approach though for a flight sim is not really feasible I think. Its about like building something out of legos. You keep adding bricks till you get some better each time. Overall it just work in a flight sim though. Especially one that tries to keep realism high, or at least as high as you can w/o killing the fun (which is something else that needs to be rebalanced in this game imo).
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

I would add is that as modular ships are made larger they get reclassified (light medium heavy etc) and that once ships reach a certain size they cannot be docked and you must instead launch a shuttle or something to dock with, leaving the main ship "parked" outside, then fly back do it in the shuttle once your done. This would probably require a "hangar" or "shuttle bay" module.
something i should clarrify, when i mean modular, i use the term modules to refer to things like engines, armour, reactor etc. They won't "grow" in size with new modules or anything.

Imangine buying a car. You choose the chassis (airframe), then you choose the engine, type of gearbox, window tinting, size and style of wheels, extra fuel tanks, 2 or 4 seats(for some), but the size of the car doesn't change. It is still the original chassis, same size, but how it drives is drifferent. That is the type of approach i am going for.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

travists wrote:I would be inclined to think engine ports are intrinsic, but you can have different engines mounted internally.
Maybe having a size limitation for engines mounted on/in the airframe, and a mass limitation of engines mounted on the wings? So you can have up to a certain size engine mounted in the ship, but you can mount engines up to a certain weight on the wings, if the ship has hardpoints for it.
travists wrote:I also think large ships would have a hanger deck and upgrade storage.
Maybe you buy upgrades to turn internal space into a certain size hanger/dock. You buy internally docking for 8 small fighters, or 2 large and 4 small or something. Each type of dock requires a certain amount of space, so as long as you have the space you can do it? although this would be a bitch to code. Might have to leave this one alone for the moment
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Deus Siddis »

pheonixstorm wrote: Especially one that tries to keep realism high, or at least as high as you can w/o killing the fun (which is something else that needs to be rebalanced in this game imo).
The idea of customizing ships out of individual modules that represent sub systems doesn't inherently produce unrealistic results.

IMHO, it's only when you have a ship that looks like it is made out of lego bricks, keeping up with similar but aerodynamically shaped vessels in lower atmosphere dogfights that it gets unrealistic.

But modular designs can be aerodynamic and not all spacecraft have to be efficiently designed for atmospheric flight.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by pheonixstorm »

Timaman wrote:Something I would add is that as modular ships are made larger they get reclassified (light medium heavy etc)...
@Deus this is what I was talking about. Its probably not phrased correctly but the way it sounds is that your building ships up like a lego set.

In a modular design (I think the US military has a few) certain parts can be swapped out w/o any problems. Another common problem though with a modular design is the fact that you would actually have less room overall to compensate for the fact you can fit anything in a given hardpoint/slot/etc.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by TBeholder »

Hicks wrote:something i should clarrify, when i mean modular, i use the term modules to refer to things like engines, armour, reactor etc. They won't "grow" in size with new modules or anything.
But... it's how this works now?
Hicks wrote:Imangine buying a car. You choose the chassis (airframe), then you choose the engine, type of gearbox, window tinting, size and style of wheels, extra fuel tanks, 2 or 4 seats(for some), but the size of the car doesn't change. It is still the original chassis, same size, but how it drives is drifferent. That is the type of approach i am going for.
Here's two threads about this already. My proposal was that casual sellers on most bases should mostly provide ready-to-fly (and frequently second hand) "*.stock" and/or local faction variety (with .milspec / .regspec mixed in at military bases), which you could strip down if you want to, while places like shipyards should have for sale "*.blank" mint hulls and a good choice of basic components.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by travists »

I think Hicks is spring-boarding off of this thread where I mentioned how to accomplish this, which I was under the impression that the general idea was dropped because the way to do it was unclear. The way I see it, most ships come with a replaceable engine package, etc.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by pheonixstorm »

Don't you love how that happens :lol:
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by travists »

OK, so far we have modular ships (defined as: having a given shape and volume, but many components changing function and preformance changeable) as a logical, oft requested, and implementable change. There appear to be few objections to The starting list, so let's work on that. --accept, tweak, or really hammer it out-- Are there any objections to having key systems as upgrades, but upgrades that are typically per-installed?

TB, do you recall if anything ever came of the "launch validator script" you mentioned looking into?
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

i should also point out that some of those i listed like the reactor and shields are already in the game, so the list will contain them all, both for new suggestions and for ones that are already implemented.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

Is the speed you travel at in spec mode hardcoded? or is it possible to change it?
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by travists »

Past bed time here, but thought I'd do a final check. I dont know if ship data can change your max SPEC speed, but ther is a "Speed limit" in the game. Both in Speed multiplyer and max total speed. These can be changed in the physics section of your config file.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

hmmm... tried editing the SPECDrive_Functionality and Max_SPECDrive_Functionality in the units.csv but can't work out what they do. Was going to try to make some SPEC drive uprades, enabling you to travel faster in SPEC.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by Hicks »

Is there any chance that we could add a variable to enable us to change the spec speed of a ship based on upgrades? just a simple multipling factor that could be defined in the units.cvs or something like that? Have it setup similar to the speed bosters.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by klauss »

Interesting, I was thinking the same the other day.

Care to file a feature request?
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by TBeholder »

Hicks wrote:Is the speed you travel at in spec mode hardcoded? or is it possible to change it?
Config variable physics/warpMaxEfVel.
see also physics/warpMultiplierMin and physics/warpMultiplierMax.
Which are multiplied by values set per ship in columns 'Warp_Min_Multiplier' and 'Warp_Max_Multiplier' of units.csv (they're omitted in the default table, but you can see them in saves as default =1).
Hicks wrote:hmmm... tried editing the SPECDrive_Functionality and Max_SPECDrive_Functionality in the units.csv but can't work out what they do.
Just like other functionality variables - set in range [0..1], tracks functional damage for things not implemented as separate upgrades.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by klauss »

TBeholder wrote:
Hicks wrote:Is the speed you travel at in spec mode hardcoded? or is it possible to change it?
Config variable physics/warpMaxEfVel.
see also physics/warpMultiplierMin and physics/warpMultiplierMax.
Which are multiplied by values set per ship uin 'Warp_Min_Multiplier' and 'Warp_Max_Multiplier' columns in units.csv (they're omitted in the default table, but you can see them in saves as default =1).
Yea, but he's speaking of max multiplier per upgrade.

Tweaking per-ship multipliers would be worthwhile, but being able to upgrade your ship's SPEC speed is missing functionality AFAIK.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by TBeholder »

klauss wrote:Yea, but he's speaking of max multiplier per upgrade.
Tweaking per-ship multipliers would be worthwhile, but being able to upgrade your ship's SPEC speed is missing functionality AFAIK.
(quick look-up) Both of these are STDUPGRADE-d in Unit::UpAndDownGrade, so "mult_" on them should be supported too.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by klauss »

Cool :D

So it's just tinkering with units.csv and masterparts
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by travists »

Just one question...
Will a 50% max allowable SPEC SPEC drive report as damaged with this method, and will "fixing" it double it's preformance? Love the idea! Slowly build what is little better than an orbital shuttle to a true interstellar hauler.
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Re: [WIP] Modular Ships

Post by klauss »

Wondering was I just that.

I know not. Worthwhile it is to find out.
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