2d and 3d Cockpits

[Timaman]

Ok so I've played this game and its great BUT the whole "no cockpit" thing is something that should be improved on, since you spend so much time there.

For anyone who has played Microsoft flight sim, you know what I mean.

Here is a good example of a 2d cockpit



This could be anything from a simple 2d overlay with no interaction at all, to something where the user can click buttons (if a interface allowing is intergrated), but this would really spice things up.

Here is a basic example just to picture it.



Black is space (seen through windows)
White is the actual interior of the craft
Green is where instrument panels and such would be located.

A 3d cockpit would be much the same, but in actual 3D.

[pheonixstorm]

If we had the artists for it we would have some pretty 2d/3d cockpits, but for now all we have is the crappy cockpit hud. Both privateer mods using the vegastrike engine use some nice 2d cockpits.

[Timaman]

I'm fairly sure I could rustle up some 2d cockpits, although I'd need someone else to implement and all that stuff.

[pheonixstorm]

The 2d cockpits are not difficult to add in, but the 3d cockpits are trickier. I thought there was a wiki page for 2d cockpits but i can't seem to find it. http://wiki.vega-strike.org/HowTo:Edit_HUDs relates to setting up the HUD but it seems to be overly complicated. To create 2d or 3d cockpits just look at the cockpits in Privateer Parallel Universe do an svn pull of either the whole game (best option so you can play and get a feel for how the cockpits are supposed to look) or just pull the cockpits directory itself .

Full: https://svn.wcjunction.com/priv_pu/branches/cubemaps/
Cockpits: https://svn.wcjunction.com/priv_pu/bran ... s/cockpits

A note on 3d cockpits. There is an outdataed requirement for them that should be ignored. 3d cockpits do *NOT* have to be sorted back to front anymore. That particular issue was dealt with awhile back.

Whichever you create, make sure to include your master files such as original model file etc as well as your finished art. All originals go into our masters repo for storage (in case we have to remake something, fix soemthing, etc.).

[pheonixstorm]

Side note.. it would be really nice if we could have the cockpit buttons be useable on a touch screen. Now THAT would be kickass!

[Hicks]

I was thinking about this as well the other day. i tried to do up a basic idea for a cockpit for the Llama


This is just a basic cut and paste job in paint, i have no skill in artwork. The cockpit also has 2 display for targets, so you could have a planet and ship, or 2 ships or something. But if we do this we would probably need different cockpits for different ships, if we want to match the view to the ship structure. And when we desgin ships we will need to think about what the view will be like. But i would love to see cockpits, as for clickable cockpits, well thats a cherry on top

[pheonixstorm]

not too shabby for a cut n paste job.

[Timaman]

Thats pretty good. With some shading and other details that could look quite professional.

[TBeholder]

As to cockpits in general, well, it's just an interface. HUD should be as informative as possible while obstructing the view as little as possible (a typical technical contradiction to trick around and optimize); as to the aesthetics, pretty much anything goes.

Centered HUD above is structurally good, but too obstructive. Of course, currently there's one target-view, but it would be good to eventually separate communication and reference/dock targets (see also Frontier:First Encounters).
Another good variant is HUD in B5:IFH, it shows you 6-DOF maneuvering, communication and at least tries to minimize clutter.
Hundreds of little switches, however, are good for controlling the craft without a nav computer (even if you can, this should not be the default, but as an emergency option definitely has its place), otherwise they are demoted to "noise".

Also, what the folk wants to see in space - laser flashes, vaporizing metal and star close-ups look more beautiful with a naked eye? So it's just a screen either way...

[travists]

... Centered HUD above is structurally good, but too obstructive. ...

Especially for the llama and it's full canopy! I love the idea of a visible cockpit and an interactive one would be great! The plowshare, though, would likely have a rather restricted view, and Cap ships would have a bridge look with a main view screen.

[greenfreedom10]

I have always thought that the best heads-up display would be transparent, on top of the outside visuals (imagine a car with no instrument cluster, but a "holographic" status in the lower windshield area). And controls should be smarter, with gesture or touchscreen interaction. Therefore, I imagine futuristic ships as having bridges with big OLED displays, with status overlaid and many controls integrated into the visual status areas. So I have actually liked the way Vega Strike's HUD works because it seems realistic to me (though it could be improved). We are stuck with keyboard and mouse (or joystick, or controller) for input, and I can see those well enough. :)

Looking at a cockpit could get old quickly; like TBeholder said, what I really want to see is epic battles and amazing space vistas.

I intend this as constructive criticism and do not mean to discourage what others see as cockpit improvements.

[travists]

And to that end a "Glass cockpit" would remain an option, just a click away.

[Hicks]

looking again at the Llama i think i put the pilot at the red arrow, but he might actually be at the green arrow, which would give him a much larger view


So a cockpit for the Llama might just be the bottom half of my original one, nothing above the wasit.
It is all a balance. Some people like the cockpit view others don't. Maybe have certain equipment in the cockpit but out of view, so you have to look down to see it, and in the main front view have a bit of a heads up display, so all the vital information.

[pheonixstorm]

I think ideally depending on the ship type the cockpit should not obstruct more than 25% of the total viewable screen. Just enough to hold the VDU, radar, etc and a few buttons but not so much as you only get a tiny view into space.

[pheonixstorm]

Found this pic of a 3d cockpit that was done and needs some work.Both radar grids can be better placed, and just that one change would help out a lot. Other issues... vdu placement and possibly being able to *SEE* whats on the radar when the placement *IS* fixed.

[Timaman]

I think the solution here would be that if the user presses 1 they get the standard cockpit (that is, blank as it is now) and if they press Shift + 1 then the cockpit overlay appears, or maybe even fades in, so that you can see the details of the cockpit and a full view. I've used an identical function on Flight simulator and it works well for landing and other tricky stuff.

[TBeholder]

looking again at the Llama i think i put the pilot at the red arrow, but he might actually be at the green arrow, which would give him a much larger view

And when the rear view is on?.. I propose to agree it's just a camera either way and stop worrying about this.
From utilitary PoV - "Cockpit::Behind" and "Cockpit::Pan" help, but since ::Behind gives a view from the top of your ship, it would be good to have the main viewport lower rather than higher. Also, the camera put as forward and close to the main axis as possible would help with tractoring - at least currentlly.

I think the solution here would be that if the user presses 1 they get the standard cockpit (that is, blank as it is now) and if they press Shift + 1 then the cockpit overlay appears, or maybe even fades in, so that you can see the details of the cockpit and a full view. I've used an identical function on Flight simulator and it works well for landing and other tricky stuff.

Er, actually it's exactly what happens now if you're pressing "Cockpit::Inside" key (normal forward view) more than once, it toggles between the ship-specific and generic cockpits. Check on any ship with non-standard cockpit assigned - e.g. Shizu.

[travists]

So then, we just need someone with the skill and time to more fully implement the current system?

[Timaman]

It appears so.

[DaveAshton]

You need to get this guy on board: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=254635

Those cockpits are for X3 Terran Conflict, but I'm guessing they'd be convertible to VS formats. Fully 3d, and with working dials/ gauges etc.

[pheonixstorm]

Nice, will have to download and see if its works with 3.0 (didnt read what versions its compatible with). At least we have 2 cockpits.. though how well they fit in game i'm not sure.

[curtis122]

Hi this is my first reply. I want to first of all say Vega strike is a great game!

Perhaps a temporary solution would be to create a new HUD and draw the cockpit. You wouldn't be able to look around but it is better than nothing

[pheonixstorm]

Still need an artist to draw or model anything cockpit related.. got any skills to help out??