what would you like to see in the vegastrike multiplayer?

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chuck_starchaser
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

klauss: sorry about the misunderstanding. Absolutely right on about "buying people"; we shouldn't forget slavery was a pretty recent historic chapter --only a generation ago or so, in these parts of the world; and still in place in other parts of the world.

reaper2: You inspired me to think of the implementation of these ideas like a chess game, where you might first think about global strategies, then come down to what should be the next move, and of all available moves, one factor affecting your choice would be whether it would open doors, or close them; and then make this one move and see how it plays.. ;-)
If we could come up with some detailed ideas of how planet management or mission design could be done now, in game, in single player mode, and harang Hellcat with it; it might open huge opportunities later, when implementing MP. Another idea: A ship design screen. I miss the ship design in MOO2 ... :-(
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

By the way, I mentioned I had this idea of importing some other 3D engine into vs for planetside walking. Years ago, I started working on a 3D engine of my own. I haven't continued the work, for various reasons, but one thing I wanted to implement was "in-game terrain editing and construction", call it TEAC :D that would allow players to get a piece of land and develop it, withough having to learn 3D max or mesher or whatnot. Just grab bricks, cement, and build it! :D Well, easier than that, hopefully.

The benefit would be that players themselves would construct towns, then cities, rather than have to have 10^40 artists working on it.
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Post by pincushionman »

Getting back to basic ideas. Do you know what would be a fun game mode?

Kill the capship!

Ya got two teams. Capship and Attack. The goal of the Capship is to get to a jump point and warpout, or get to a starfortress and dock, or whatever, by whichever manner they can. The goal of the Attack is, of course, to prevent this from happening, either by destroying the capship outright, or by disabling its engines while forcing it off-course. If the ship can coast into the victory zone, it still wins, regardless of its engine or systems status.

The number of players has to be balanced somehow, considering the sheer amount of damage a good capship can take. But that's beyond the scope of this treatment.

Anyway, the Capship team: One teammate has to drive the ship. The pilot is also responsible for functions anc communications management. He should have no guns under his control, since there will be no enemies large enough to make Main Ship Guns effective; but he does have control over any defensive missiles that may be equipped. He can jump to an unmanned turret for 10-second intervals, though.

Other tasks would include flying fighters and manning turrets. Fighters respawn in the hangar indefinitely, but only two-thirds of the team may be flying fighters at any one time. The reverse is also true, at least a third of the team must be flying. If enough turrets are damaged to prevent this, one will automatically be "repaired."

The attack team consists of bombers and fighters. The bombers are lumbering and difficult to fly, but they are the only ships that have a snowball's chance in hell of damaging the ship itself. Fighters can hit the energy shield as well as destroy turrets, though, so the capship can't afford to just ignore them.

No more than one-third of the Attack team may fly a bomber at one time, but there always must be at least one. Attack ships respawn as well, but at the start point, and they have to travel to the capship.

Ooh, sounds fun for me already!
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Post by TyKeiL »

good on you pincusionman for that, i'm never any good at amking up missions like that


back to the dreamers side...


well i think something that is implementable now is user defined waypoints,

with that starmap you should be able to setup waypoints foryourself to travel around systems easily... or give them to friends, this little feature can be expanded into patroll routs, trade routs, tactical warfare, etc.. it(in my mind) is simple enough to implement

they can also show up over your regular vision as heads up,

if it exists i havent used it yet but automatically aiming the ship at your target would be usefull, couple'd with the waypoint you could setup your flight path to your next destination and say go. the ship would be on autopilot..

to get smooth transitions between points with automatic ship orientation you could make the waypoint path a nurbs curve

ok i have to go, things happening... need to leave or i would talk more, esp about planetside :O)
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Post by Barak »

One important aspect of a multiplayer game is to be able to organize team play (I have in mind something like the old 2-d game netrek/paradise). For this to happen VS needs to have the following additional features (IMHO):

1. A good intra-team communication system. Something like the current scrolling message system in the hud, augmented to allow for non-canned messages to be sent either to individuals, your "team" or globally.

2. A way to share resources (preferably in flight). Minimally this would be cash but could also include things like ammunition, spare parts etc. Who would want to fly cargo missions otherwise? In fact what would be the point?

3. A goal. For example, suppose a team had the equivalent of "a fully functional death star" that had to be destroyed (of course at great cost) [In fact this is one of the features of netrek].

4. As long as we're talking about goals, how does one go about conquering planets in the current game? In a MP scenario, I would like to be able to have my team bomb enemy planets and/or take them over. Bombing (successfully, of course) would deplete resources available for trade, or wipe out the colony completely (for the right kind of bomb), or shatter the planet, boil off the atmosphere, and other fun stuff (imagine the graphics for that one :twisted: )
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My Request

Post by ShoCkwaVe »

I am a newb to VegaStrike and loveing the game and if multiplayer is added I will defn be a player you will always see playing :) .

Things I would like to see happen:
_____________________________

If any1 here is firmiliar to the classic game scorched3d the multiplayer
option is simple and very user friendly.

like scorched:

I would like to see a simple selection box at that gives you an option to refresh server lists with names of players in game so you can see your friends or foes who are playing on dif servers also stars indicating official servers per mod.

stats : every player gets a unique stat ID to indicate who you are and
what your rank, kills etc.

full in game chat, & a chat mute option for all the flamers or abusive language or even login administrators that can kick/ban abusive players,

simple auto updates for all mods just by connecting to the server with a loading window to show what files you need , with both an estimated time % of completion & per file.

**anti cheating is a must**

And I just thought I would add a suggestion for the moderator community

*PLEASE* some1 make a vast user friendly moderator manual explaining all aspects of creating your own mod starting with what files you need to alter & code examples that explain all the tags.

I know thats asking alot and woulld take ALOT of time
but the devlopers must have spent a long time making this game and I would love to see it grow into a large vast space online community :)

**wine**

I only ask for a mod manual because I am so lost and confused and SOOO wanting to make my own mod & have no clue even where to start.

Reguards,
*Play Vega Wars Mod*
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TyKeiL
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Post by TyKeiL »

i thought i would make a quick summary of whats in the last 3 pages of this post im sure i missed some things,, obviously more information can be found by finding the post and the full descriptions of whats in here,,

this is just to stop repetition and such, also gives people a quick referance, i didnt notice some things till i made this :O)


issues:
Trashcanboy:
hardly any players
players flying only big cap ships and not small craft
guest
more player interaction
doesnt like RTS style players
players and ai fighting together(doesnt like)focus on player vs player
TyKeiL
want players to controll 1 ship only(no RTS)
against seperate client models
loves Hardcore death
Chuck_starchaser
security
hates deathmatch arena style
Klauss
completness of user defined missions
CubOfJudahsLion
all for variety
Duality
against players and ai fighting together

feature mentions:
Trashcanboy
quake style
Squads
Guilds
Logins and passwords
Chuck_Starchaser
automatic skill adjusting missions
capture the flag
perisitant server side universe
Planetside management
jump point scanning when exploring
scanning makeup of planets and asteroids(mining and colonisation)
planetside walkable
Pincusionman
as many players on server as possible(unlimited?) :O)
kill the capship
Guest
more than one player manning a spacecraft
RTS style gameplay(seperate from fps)
Silverain
lots of AI
TyKeiL
detailed game economics
user setup waypionts patrol routs
limited game controll through alternate interface(e-mail, sms, irc icq etc etc).
user defined missions
hire and controll of AI through starmaps(waypoints objective's etc)
irc style bar interface
tactical starmap for controll of assets and warfare
Klauss
AI control when not ingame
Destructable universe
multiple client programs for different layers of gameplay(rescinded on suggestion)
CubOfJudahsLion
open well documented versatile mission development framework, accessible script repository for scenario based missions
treasure hunt
zero programming scenario development tool
Duality
ingame voice chat
re-cloned instead of respawned for deaths(i think this is cool)
Barak
sharable resources
conquering planets
Sockwave
server lists with visible lists of who's playing
player stats rank kills etc
beans
chuck_starchaser
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Great job TyKeil!!! I couldn't have imagined we'd covered so much ground.

Now, without suggesting in the least that the exploratory stage is over, while it continues, rather, I'd say there's enough material there to start experimenting with integration: Seeing which features agree with what other features, and see what "sets" of features can be aggregated, and what shapes emerge. For instance, the hardcore mode (if you die, you're dead) obviously goes well with, rather necessitates, persistence of state in the shared universe. It goes well with features like users owning corporations, or having careers in politics, or in the military. It also agrees with RPG features, such as inventory, investment in ship upgrades, etc. It would go very badly with risky missions, however. Most teams would try to maximize profits as to be able to hire NPC's to fight for them... :D ... In fact, it almost precludes player versus player play, because average survival probabilities in such a situation would be 50%, so only the very young and dispossessed could afford it.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, we have deathmatch, which IMO is mindless gameplay; more the kind of game for gameboxes than PC's. And for those who like this kind of play, we could have a designated system for it, where you can respawn and suffer no persistent consequences.

I'm all for the hardcore style; but it has its probles, like I mentioned.

The problem of death is not new. Diablo dealt with it with a bit of elegance, by having magic scrolls for resurrection, which are rare, so you really don't want to die, but if you do, you have a chance.

I think the idea of cloning is actually BRILLIANT. I hadn't given it much though until you commented on it, though. Death is a problem for the old, not for the young. The people who are flying a tarsus with two tachs, would probably just say "Doh!" if they die and have to go back to a tarsus with two lasers. (Doh! Here I am again forgetting I'm not in the WCU forum...) Anyways, you get my meaning.
So, this could make for a bit of an interesting gameplay: In order to get to the kind of ship, career and capital needed to move onto the other types of play, such as strategy style, planet management or fleet command, you need to get through the young stage. But once you get past there, you need to protect your investment, if you're going to be able to take further risks. So you pay for Clone Life Assurance, 1 million credits for a basic plan. 10 million for the full plan (unlimited re-clonings). Should be expensive, otherwise everybody would be getting cloned all the time and it would be llike having re-spawning. It should also take time: Maybe not 9 months, but, say, 24 hrs real time? Of course, some corporations may offer to pay half the cloning insurance price for their employees, or for select employees; or offer to finance it: You pay 10% of your earnings; they front the cash.

But even with cloning, there would be a significant risk aversion; and some might question the fun of hardcore without trying it. My experience with hardcore mode comes from playing a fight sim that was called TFX (for Tactical Fighter eXperiment) which was a low res but otherwise accurate flight sim, both in avionics and weapons systems, and excellent AI. Needless to say, a game that is hardcore can't be as hard as one that isn't. So everything becomes more true to life. All this business of getting shot at, at every jump point would have to go away (as it could never be the case, or such a society would never function). Also, in a hard-core game, hardness has to go up through the story or campaign in very small increments, and very monotonically. I.e.: You can't have one episode or mission or plot suddenly be much harder than the previous. Also, a hardcore game should provide an in-game way of advising you when you seem to not be getting something right. When I played Strike Commander, I was finding the chaff and flares did not seem very effective. Then one character in the game says to me, paraphrasing, "All these rookie pilots saying 'the flares don't work'... I ask them 'What speed are you going when you drop them?, and how hard do you break?' and they ask 'I was supposed to break?'"
Not sure if he said that in response to my playing style, or because it was scripted; but it *could* have been the former; and it makes for a good example of how to help a player. In hard core, you can't just leave players to their own wits; not very nice or fair.
In short, there's a lot more risk aversion in hardcore, but the adrenaline is there every bit as much, in the sense that your perception of risk is heightened. At the same time, hardcore would be somewhat incompatible with player against player play, except for fresh, new pilots without too much to lose. Even with a mechanism for reviving, players with significant investments will prefer to confront real players in a more strategic, attrition style; or when the odds of winning a battle are high. (Or when the consequences of running away from a confrontation might be intolerable.)
However, player versus AI could still be there, and cooperative against AI would still be there. Not only cooperative in the sense of teams, but also in the sense of convoys. Those who've played Fallout 2 will remember you could, instead of transporting goods all alone, you could go to some places in some cities where you'd wait for and join a full convoy.

Another concept I've argued for at the WCU forum but not here, is that of geographically distributed AI difficulty. I was trying to address the old problem in games, namely that as the player improves the ship and acquires more skills, the game becomes less challenging; but if you increase difficulty as the player improves the ship, that's, first of all, a cheat; and secondly, once known it removes the incentive to upgrade one's ship. This was the case with Privateer, where the strenght of enemies followed the price of the guns you bought.
With geographically distributed AI difficulty (GDAD) you have safe systems or safe corridors, and progressively more dangerous systems as you move away from those routes. However, missions are progressively more rewarding, financially, as you move away from the safe zones. This allows the player to control his or her level of comfort. You could choose to run 200 low profit missions or 20 high risk ones, to pay for a new ship, say.
There could also be separate 'islands' of safety: A player could choose to take a once only extra risk trip to move from one safe region to another; or join a convoy to get there more slowly but with less risk.

Epilogue:
We were talking at some point about what *small* changes could be introduced in the game and/or game-engine NOW, that would help open doors in the future, when implementing multi-player. I think now that one of the most important features to add is a Hard-core Mode.
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Post by klauss »

I kind of dont like GDAD. It sound unreal. Anyway, I can see the necessity for having it. But just a suggestion to make it more real: make core systems safer (in each sector), and outer systems more risky. That way, if you start in one system and can't take the risk, you have to stay there (travelling is too dangerous). Kind of like real life (at least, real life a few centuries ago ;) ).

Also, difficulty should be graduated mostly by increasing or decreasing police AI patrols (or friendly patrols), since it's quite odd that high-powered ships won't be travelling through some geographic place. They should be present, but kept at bay by the police.

(Although it's an Idea I like, perhaps balancing such a setup will be hard - just an idea)
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Sorry, I see where I said "geographically distributed AI difficulty" was a bad choice of term, AI, I just meant enemies, not geographically increasing I.Q.; --namely what you say: inner systems are safer, less enemies, more police, but as you get away it gets rougher.. ;-)
As opposed to standard solutions to the problem of difficulty, which increase it with time, or with player skills, or ship and weapon type. I'd rather see regions of space that are virtually impossible to survive in, but with tons of money to be made, or even treasures to be found...
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Post by Duality »

When you die, not only you get recloned but you lose your entire ship(duh) and get some insurance back on it.

I also want to see:
* Some insurance for losing ship or selling the whole ship.
* The ability for every player to have a ship hanger on a planet.
* At least 2-3 players to operate a strike cruiser efficently.
* Armor upgrades to add mass to the ship(I don't know if this exists or not).
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Post by Duality »

Also quoted from another space mmo(which is being developed) forums:
It would be kind of dumb for one person who happens to have alot of money to own his own Battlecruiser. Large ships should take guilds, corps, factions, etc to purchase, not 1 person who got lucky selling whatever he makes.

Massive battles are for massive guilds (factions, etc), not for 10 person guilds who just have alot of big ships run by 1 person.
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Post by klauss »

Kind of makes sense. So, to formalize that, we could add the requisite of manning a capship with at least N people, otherwise it won't be operative.
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Post by TyKeiL »

i really only half agree with the above,,

but i think instead of making it so that you cant fly a capship, possibly make the rewards of manning it with other people far outweigh not doing it..

im not sure yet as i havent played enough int the game to even afford a different ship than the llama =P
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Post by Duality »

Well as for capitalship, I'm probably talking about big big ships.

Not the llama. A single player can probably man that.

As for gunboats, you need at least 2 people.

Well due to my human nature, I am against anything that has to do with automated related stuffwhen it comes to in-space flight. As in with a strike of a hotkey or a single click of a mouse, while I sit back.

When I could be flying a ship with a full blown face to face in PvP.

With AI ships, capturing slave ships, MyFleet, autotracking, flying capships should only belong to singleplayer.

As for the universe size, it should look something like this:
http://edice.arvixe.com/images/testuniverse.gif

This idea is small enough to keep space alive with players. And when in the later future, you could expand it.
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Post by TyKeiL »

everytime i write something i think a little more on it and the idea morphs so much..

so far ,i assume that, all the ships currently are designed to run from 1 pilot only (singleplayer)
when thinking about a multiplayer universe many new designs can be created and possibly will have to be created to accomodate for the style of gameplay people want.

after thinking about this i have come to the conclusion that all ships must be able to be piloted by at least 1 person, if only to limp back for repairs at the shipyard

just that not all functionality will be available to them at all times

take for example a 2 man light fighter one guy pilots and fights the front and the other defends and fights from the rear(also checking on subsystems)

now the rear gunner isnt available to fight today, so you have to go out alone,
the gun at the back of the ship cant be useless so the makers of the ship allow you to controll it from the front, and you look at your monitor to see where you are firing.

of cource whilst doing this you cant see a thing out the front window and could get blown to smitherines or collide with something while you werent looking ahead

now.. say you were in the dock and you got a mission to go kill some people or something, you didnt want to fly it alone in your 2 man fighter so you hire some AI to jump int he back seat.
now this AI sais to you" i want %50 of the take" crap you just lost half your pay
also, what if AI had levels of skill, you check out the AI's stats and he's a crappy pilot
you cant say bugger off cause you need someone to go with you or you think you will die so you have to agree or be good enough on your own..

apply this same principle to the capships, they would require a huge amount of money to run and unless you could pay for everyone, keep them happy etc they might turn mutinous, or abandon you..

ok the train has stopped at the station now. time to reflect mabe buy some souvineers etc
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Post by TyKeiL »

more...

this could also mean that people who own large capships can do super large missions

they fly there capship with whatever crew to the most populated(by real people) dock advertise there mission load up with real people buy AI for the fill ins, or not and go do some fighting..

now depending on the mission or something the people who are the bought crew might not get any action at all(cargo run) but still get paid all the same

this could be good for pilots who had to eject from there craft when it got destroyed and have no credits spare, there is still a way for them to get some cash

also make for a way to start the game without a ship
Last edited by TyKeiL on Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by TyKeiL »

more...

as for space staions...

say you are hanging around in your fav bar talking to people. suddenly an attack on the station happens an emergency broadcast comes over the speakers
"we are under attack ...anyone willing to help defend our statin will be paid a commision for the destruction of hostile's"
you make your way to the stations turrets and help defend getting money for your services.

adds another dimention to gameplay

now it wouldnt work if you got into your ship and killed someone unless you worked for the station itself. or were apart of the same guild or something, just to remove confusion.
that way it would almost force people to use the stations turrets to earn the cash rather than jump into there ship.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

TyKeiL, you should try playing the Privateer Remake, and then checking out WCU. In Privateer there are a lot of medium and large ships. There are four ships the player can fly in Privateer (many more in WCU, including huge capital ships), and of those 4 ships, one has two turrets (top and bottom), and another has a rear turret. In the original game of Privateer, you could press the '[' key to switch from the front cockpit to a turret and back (or to the next turret, if any, in round robin fashion), and each turret can have any gun you can buy; --same controls.

It turned out, though, that nobody used them much because it's just too demanding on your reflexes to switch turrets and shoot. So, in the Privateer Remake, now they have automatic mode. In fact, you can configure them to have leading auto-tracking.
They help a bit, if you remember to turn them on. They help particularly if you're trying to escape your enemies and they give chase. Once my rear turret actually killed a bogie chasing me, but that was a rare, memorable event. :)

The biggest ship you can have right now in WCU is a capital ship called the Paradigm. It costs 8Million credits just for the bare hull (compared to 200K credits for the best ship you can buy in Privateer); and you'd probably spend another 5 or 6 million maxing it out. I hacked the save game, gave myself enough money, bought it, and maxed it out right away. It has a ridiculous number of turrets, all of which I fit with leading autotracking AI and best weapons. Even so, there were many missions I got blasted out of space.

In multiplayer, though, all those turrets could have real people behind them. Your idea is quite right: The benefit of having real players, over AI, is enormous. When one considers that in a mission you may be up against a number of enemy AI's and overcome them, this tells me that real intelligence does A LOT better than AI. So, there's really no need to tweak anything to allow AI in multiplayer, and still benefit enormously from having real players instead.
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Post by Duality »

Actually I have been dreaming for a social open-ended space trading multiplayer game wither massivly of not or years now.
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Post by Silverain »

<quick comment>

Remember, in VS we have:
Ejection
Death

If we went more hardcore, then your death should be just that - your pilot is dead, start again.

It would give more incentive to pay attention to your 'Overload' in the HUD and eject to fight again another day. As it is, its just a warning that the battle is harder than usual.
THOUGHT CRIME! [points finger] THOUGHT CRIME!
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Duality wrote:Actually I have been dreaming for a social open-ended space trading multiplayer game wither massivly of not or years now.
My dream exactly, ever since I played privateer... I was thinking, this could become a world where one lives part of every day.
Silverain wrote:If we went more hardcore, then your death should be just that - your pilot is dead, start again.
It would give more incentive to pay attention to your 'Overload' in the HUD and eject to fight again another day. As it is, its just a warning that the battle is harder than usual.
Like I've mentioned, I once played a flight sim, TFX, that was hardcore. I wish for everybody to have the hard-core experience: After a month or two of playing through the story, death is simply not an option. You'd do anything to minimize risk, and still get the shakes and butterflies each time you launch. In TFX not only you could die, but if you ejected in enemy territory, next time you started the game you were MIA, which was as good as dead. But somehow, ejecting wasn't an option either. Your score would go down to almost nothing if you lost a 25M$ plane. One of the missions was over Yugoslavia, --which was prophetic, this was long before the war there--, a difficult mission to begin with, and when I got back to the carrier they said they'd been damaged and I couldn't land on it. I had maybe 10% of fuel remaining, and no idea where to go. Then I remembered that from high altitude I'd seen the coast of Italy to the west, so I decided to try to make it there. At high altitudes the air is very thin, and you can fly at Mach 1.5 wile consuming less than cruising at low altitude. I headed up for my plane's ceiling, accelerated slowly to Mach 1.5 and then turned the engines off and glided the rest of the way to Italy. Once there I followed the trail of a commercial plane, to find an airstrip, and just made it to it, still gliding, but had to put the engines back on for the landing. You can't imagine my relief. Then a movie came on, of newspapers with headlines about a heroic pilot... whatever. But if the game wasn't hardcore, it wouldn't have been the kind of experience that I still remember vividly, after like 15 years.. ;-)

In multiplayer, hardcore mode would result in a highly turbulent atmosphere. Some players would give up altogether on the hope of advancing slowly and safely. After a few deaths they might decide to take MORE risks, in the hope of hitting a jackpot and be able to afford a better ship and upgrades. They will probably try many factions and eventually settle for some outlaw kind of life, always hoping to get rich quick. Others would choose the finesse of making careful risk and profit studies of many trading routes, read all the documents and gossip they can about weponry and equipment, to try and get the best deals; cooperate with other players, such as in traveling trade routes in convoys. They'd go to bars and chat with other players, NOT so much to kill time, or for the novelty, but with a serious intention of networking for mutual benefit, and getting information not available from GNN. Or even to discuss and exchange opinions about ship models or equipment brands. Hard-core would bring out a deep seriousness in people, about the MP game.

Hard-core, IMO, should precede MP. The reason is that with a hardcore game, bugs that can kill you are simply intolerable, so HC would result in an immediate multiplication of people's urgency in reporting bugs and submitting logs. It would propel engine debugging into high gear. It would also cause a flood of reports on even the most subtle balancing issues. Even having gone through an unexpected near miss of getting killed, will get a sure report submission to the devs. Important missing features will be identified quickly.

After a few months of HC, game and engine would reach the closest thing to perfection. Launching multiplayer then would be a hit: News would spread through the Net like wildfire.

Hard-core leads to commitment and seriousness, both from players and devs. I really hope the few of us trying to convince the latter, succeed.
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Post by smbarbour »

I think that hardcore should be an option. Perhaps if the game goes massively multiplayer, there should be two sets of servers, one hardcore and one not. The best way to handle this in my opinion would be to have greater rewards with the hardcore version. Perhaps certain items would be cheaper in hardcore, or certain missions would pay a higher amount than they would in a non-hardcore universe. At the same time, I think that in a hardcore universe you should be less likely to completely die from crashing your ship and more likely to be in the ejector seat. There should be an incentive to trying to keep your pilot alive. You may have lost your ship, but you still have your health.

Sorry, I'm being long-winded again. Must be because I'm from the Chicago area. :D
I've stopped playing. I'm waiting for a new release.

I've kicked the MMO habit for now, but if I maintain enough money for an EVE-Online subscription, I'll be gone again.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Precisely, your life has to be more valuable than your ship to justify having an ejection seat. Without hardcore, notice that the value of your life is equal to zero.
That's probably the biggest violation of realism there is, in any non-hard-core game. I've read your argument about "realism" vs. "believability", and about the costs vs. benefits. Good post. I would certainly not play a game in which I get stuck in traffic every day, only to have a boring job, a neighbor that hates me, and having to shovel snow and change diapers. That's precisely why we play games: To move for a while to a world that's more exciting. Others would rather seek excitement in the real world, and so they join the military, or the mafia, whatever. In any case, we want to escape, and believe our escape. And the best, and most believable escapes are those that are big, complex, heterogeneous, yet have a lot of self-consistency. But like I think it was JackS that replied to your post, reality has a great deal of self-consistency built into it, so one can do little wrong trying to approach it.

Well, just like when trying to clean up a very dirty shed, one starts by lifting the bigger dirt with a shovel and carting it away, rather than shining the furniture; I'd say the most unrealistic element has to go first, and the finer ones come after. And what bigger unreality can there be to reloading or respawning.

But let me say something here to shock the skeptics: If you were to drop me in a desert island, with a computer, and a choice between Privateer and TFX, as much as I loved privateer, I'd have to choose TFX, no hesitation. In spite of all the ambiance, music and art, Privateer is a cheap arcade, if you compare it to a game that keeps you so involved, that it takes you days to fly a mission because of all the time you spend anticipating about it, and rehersing it in the simulator.

TFX had no story whatsoever, though. The big reward was simply to get through the game. For some it might have been the final score, for bragging about. For me it was curiosity about what surprises might remain. And some did: enemies of very high AI and good planes, with jammers and all that. I was very close to finising TFX when something got corrupted in it, and refueling planes started flying at half their normal speed. Combat planes could not remain airborn while moving so slowly, so, unable to refuel, I could not complete one mission, and I stopped playing. That's why I say, hard-core forces quality, in a game.

As for having two servers... Well, certainly the mindless Quake-like game will be more popular. You'll see a big difference in the kind of seriousness of the players, though.

What about having a synergy of the two? The one thing the hardcore players will be missing is quantity of combat experience. But if you lived in a world where each day there's a chance in 5,000 you might get attacked by pirates, you'd probably want to be up on your skills, as well as your equipment. You'd probably be willing to pay for time on a simulator every day. So, how about we have that in the game!

You go to the simulation hall, pay 50 credits, and then it's the same thing as flying your ship in space; and you could choose realism levels... Say for instance that you've taken a mission to deliver cargo to a system far away, for a lot of money. You went to the bar, spread the word, and found a few other traders to share the trip with. You studied the map, the factions, the places to land for repairs, got your ship in ship shape. Now what? Most important thing of all: Get together with your fellow travelers, pay a visit to the sim hall, and take the trip on the sim at the highest realism; --in which mode you encounter the same types and numbers of enemies you're likely to encounter during the real trip.
Some of the machines are less sophisticated and cheaper to rent, and people just play head to head combat with each other for fun and to hone their skills (and maybe play for bets ;-) )
Duality
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Post by Duality »

Well the point is, anyone should be able to host their server but it is highly recommended that if you want to host a universe server, expect to host a lot of players and not just for a small local community at most because I predict that the universe may be large.

But anyways, as for the stranderd universe idea, we should have a universe which contains up to 60 systems for now. Lets have one cluster system for for each faction players can start out. As I said in another thread, a player can choose a race to start out as a Confed, Aera, or an Rlaan. The player does not have to be human. But the good part about this is, you are not supposed to be limited to your own faction ships and you cannot buy other primary faction's ships unless if you have a good high reputation with other ships.

Now in the the long run, I have no clue low long the open ended version of vegastrike multiplayer will last. As long is theres people donating to the game, it sounds like it may last for a while.

I was also suggesting recloaning after death. As for the escape pod; in order to make the gameplay more fun, add some jump capabilities and make it go a lot faster. I mean a little slower than stranderd fighters.
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