Vega Strike Forums

With VS lacking on a lot of things. It seems selfish to start yelling for something again. but, i need to . Okay:

This time: Music.

Why the obsession with techno?

Granted it's the future and it sound nice, anyways. But it gets boring. And some sound too much like DISCO. Which me and a helluva lot of other people hate.

You know what would add character to VS? Folk music. Especially those with a lot of percussions. Music styles I've tagged in my possibles:

1. Celtic music. bagpipes or whatever it is you play out there.
2. Middle Eastern music.
3. Indian (the subcontinent)
4. Indian(The native americans)
5.Chinese/japanese
6.African

hmm... haven;t heard much other examples. But basically those.

Keening/wailing sounds (as in probably violins, pianos, etc) when in deep space to illustrate loneliness.

Lively tribal music (and by tribal I don;t just mean african and asian, I mean tribal as in folk music) when near stations, etc.

Choirs, chants or lots of percussions for battles/etc.

And of course, techno where applicable.

My ideas only. For the perusal of the general public.

Did you read the thread where ken seguro made his short (re)appearance?
That's what we have in mind. It's not so much techno, though techno is a (tiny) part of it for humans. I hate techno. But mostly it does get boring.

If you didn't, read it - there's lot of very good ideas there, we only need composers to start making them a reality. I even started studying a bit of composition to see if I could help (I'm not hopeful though... I lack talent, and that's very difficult to make up for with just study). Anyway, even if I were able to do anything decent, it takes a lot of time, and I don't have it. So it goes veeery slowly. I tried my hand at some rlaan ideas, and I think they could work, but obviously the proof-of-concept was veery disappointing (not the concept itself, but the particular composition). So I'm not even publishing it. I'd be embarrased.
Anyway... we need composers...

Nope. I'll hunt around for it. Anyway, I like techno if it's sufficiently noisy. I don;t know if Asian Dub Foundation is techno but, that kind of thing. I don't like techno that's just a series of beeps and squeaks.

However I like enya. And no matter how weird that sounds, I can't help but like them. Something in the songs makes you imagine emptiness, in the good sense. Very suitable for space. Though not for space battles. haha.

Anyway... we need composers...

we could use pre-existing folk music. I would think there are a lot that is free on the net. I'm aching for arabic music especially. We could ask for permission, and if needed tweak it a bit to make it loopable or techy enough.

I like these ideas.. I have some free time coming up the next couple of weeks and I'll start looking around for some public domain/creative commons folk music.


I think I may do some loops and create some derivative works.. I promise no outright techno, but don't be surprised if you hear some drum loops.

A few questions:
What are the length requirements? What type of encoding should I use when I upload it? Where should I upload the finished product?

Previews: normal bitrate ogg should be fine.
Finished: very-high-bitrate ogg is enough (flac or wav would be best).

Format: 44.1khz 16-bit stereo at least, 24-bit also accepted (flac or wav). Other sampling rates... possible, but only if they have useful content (don't kid yourself... synthesizers don't produce useful content over 20khz with their limited samples... so unless you're recording your stuff...)
Of course, distribution will be either 44.1khz 16 stereo ogg, but a few of us have been pondering giving optional downloads with higher-quality stuff if the sources are available, and even if that doesn't realize, having high-quality masters is a must.

I'll be archiving everything offline - that's what the high-quality versions are for. Plus, I prefer to do the downsampling/bit-reduction myself, as I have much higher quality tools for that than what most suites offer.

Be sure to check out http://www.magnatune.com, particularly the works of Shira Kammen. The VegaStrike developers or anyone else is allowed to distribute the music, provided it is not for commercial gain. See https://magnatune.com/artists/license/student .

"GNU/Berkeley/OSI licensed games or software that are given away for free (or included incidentally inside a larger distribution, even in a pay-distribution)"


Also check out some of the sheet music collections linked from http://icking-music-archive.org/oth_mus_archives.php .


I too would be interested in submitting an original performance. Just not sure what to play... Or even if it would be of any use, considering that I am just a solo student cellist and I do not have access to proper recording equipment (no 44.1kHz 16-bit stereo for you... Though I can do the sample rate and bitdeepth, just not stereo)[/url]

On another note (pardon the pun :p ), how do you guys feel about Klezmer music? I'm not Jewish, but I've always dug the tunes.. Plus I've been playing clarinet for nearly 20 years now, and never done it..

@Bjornredtail
Well, if you can make it to Puget Sound in Washington State, I'll record you .. Never recorded a cello before..

Sorry for the omission: for solo instruments, mono is alright (stereo better, but...). It's the final mix the one that must be stereo, and a solo instrument can be stereoly mixed without problem. If the entire piece is a solo, it will need ambient reverbs and stuff, and though it would be best for them to be naturally acquired (recorded), they can be synthesized just as well. So... solos on mon = ok.

Never heard klezmer. But if it's folk music, I expect it to be nice. And even if I end up not liking some folk music, it still is better for strangeness rather than the monotonous boredom of techno.

Techno may be the fad for futuristic music now. But the future may go retro, as is obvious from history. WAAAY retro, as in primitive music becomes the kind of music future people go to concerts for. hehe

Never heard a cello either. Maybe I did, but I did not recognize it for a cello.

How do you DL form magnatune? It looks VERY interesting. But I see the horrid word that permeates the net: "BUY"

Is it actually GPL?

Too bad, Filipino folk music sounds too weird to be of use ingame. Kind of like gamelan music of indonesia. The islamic folk music has potential, but still strange. I guess we filipinos just like to use weird instruments. haha

VERY OT: There is a tribal music that's sooo weird. A chanting accompanied by the monotonous twanging of a single-stringed instrument and sometimes a few percussions. It really sounds radical. Not awful. I can never call any cultural music awful, but strangely stupifying.

klezmer is kind of a cross between polka and middle-eastern music. I seem to recall The Blues Brothers (not sure whether it was the first or second movie) playing a Bar Mitzvah and playing Hava Nagila (sp?).. It's usually really upbeat.

Then it'd be nice I think. Hehe, haven't seen any Blues brothers movie. Ain;t even sure what that is. Middle eastern influence seems to make great mood music. Now depending on how the klezmer in question sounds, I'm sure it would fit nicely in appropriate VS situations.

I'm not Jewish either, so I really have no idea

Haha... my cousin is in a klezmer group. It's kinda crazy... sort of like folk polka.

In the way of "non-techno" music, has anyone listened to peace3.ogg in the dataset? It's really cool, kind of eastern. More of that would be nice- I wonder why I never hear it in-game.

In the way of "non-techno" music, has anyone listened to peace3.ogg in the dataset?

I haven't really LISTENED to VS music in a while. Since I replaced everything in the playlist back in my first un-dev-version-enhanced VS download. The one offered here (from m1ck i think??) as replacement for ocean bases (??again not sure) was good. Will listen to them when I get home.

I don't really hate Techno. I like techno with sense, that is with "mood". Techno that's just techno is boring. But with nothing more but synth programs, I guess techno is all we have.

Hehe. Here's a list of some of the music I replaced the originals with in my VS playlists:

Novio, Jakatta, deep forest - enya, Delirium, Silence, world looking in - morcheeba, Hayling, trouble - garbage, i think we're gonna make it - filter, hoho even island in the sun - weezer. haha. I keep changing it tho. See most is techno or is remixed in some way.

EDIT:
Trouble is by pink
Push it is by garbage

.. I'll have to remember that. They sound too mcuh alike. I like em both, anyways.

On the folk music idea, I *really* enjoyed the music from Firefly. Being a space based sci-fi show I wouldn't have imagined it. Stuff like that would be cool, at least as an alternative, in non-combat moments.

Garbage, Weezer, Firefly.... you guys have good taste.

Please give peace3.ogg a listen. I think you'll like it- and I don't think you'll have heard it in-game, it doesn't seem to be on any of the playlists for some reason.

i think that more chines/japan stell music for the game is a good idea...
and me by a littel influence mid east/eurpe stell...


for the gnn i think that more in the cnn/bbc theme...

Peace3.ogg is set as the agricultural splash music.
So you should hear it from time to time at startup.

Besides that, I think it's set as base music for one of the base types - carribean, for instance. Sad carribean planets aren't that common.

@klauss
i think that steel_p.ogg can be used for carribean base types than Peace3.ogg...
and Peace3.ogg can used be for asia like base types...

Oh yeah! Peace3.ogg ROCKS!
It definitely has the japanese feel to it. Heh, gives me ideas of making a base with an oriental atmosphere.

The sad thing is: The only music I really like is peace3, news, and one of the new ocean themes (oceansomething, if it could somehow be made louder. ); the rest are forgettables or are just unpleasant to my ears. Sorry to the contibutors who made them .Especially the ones with martial snare drums and the really really annoying synth organ. I mean, it's nice, but it's out of place for a 3d space shooter. Something in them reminds me of the pixelated scroller games of the paleozoic computer era.

@geoscope: what's Firefly, btw? Another sci-fi TV opera? Sorry, I haven't got access to US TV. Hey, has anyone here seen the french film "Banlieu 13"? The techno there ROCKS! But still, I like my techno with the cultural twist.

That hindi song by the Asian Dub Foundation, for example. Or the GLA music from Command&Conquer: Generals (Confession: The GLA faction is my favorite partly from the sheer skill needed to make them win, and mostly because I like bopping to the music, especially the one with the muezzin refrain. hehe ). And of course, the music that brought tears to my eyes when I realized I didn;t know how to extract it from the game files - music from Homeworld 2.

So is there a music archive somewhere that could give us access to folk music?

I belive I mentioned one earlier... http://www.magnatune.com .

Of the existing vegastrike music, I like the two ISO themes (isobattle.ogg and isopeace.ogg), areapeace.ogg, agriculture.ogg, victory.ogg and terranbattle.ogg . Some of the others show some musical worth, but are badly hampered by being synthisized (agriculture_p.ogg and militarybase_p.ogg in particular). The real thing is almost always better than synthized... Now if only I had a symphony orchestra around.

The most obvious problem is the generic station sound... shared by most kinds of stations (just not factory/research and fighter barracks/starfortress) , plus any dockable capship. And that song got old... around the 3rd cargo run to Serenity.

It would be good to have songs for rlaan and aera owned ships/stations , for instance.

I belive I mentioned one earlier... http://www.magnatune.com .

i know, but how exactly do we get around to asking for music from those guys? I clicked on the music and I got to somewhere where I choose between buying a download or buying a cd.

Do you know anybody we could contact in magnatune to request usage and download of their music for non-commercial purposes? I would do it myself, but I'm really just a visual artist. Hehe

The real thing is almost always better than synthized... Now if only I had a symphony orchestra around.

me too. But synthesized music can sound good, with enough skill... or equipment. hehe.

The most obvious problem is the generic station sound

You mean the music or the ambient sounds? I agree, but I'd like the music improved first. Because after playing VS for the first time, the one thing I searched on the VS wiki is how to edit the playlists.

Ambient sounds can be made by recording subway stations! or noisy marketplaces! how about that for an idea. hehe. then just remix it a bit with synth beeps and clangs every now and then.

@Oblivion:

Firefly was indeed a US scifi show on the FOX network. It later aired on the Sci-Fi channel and BBC3 which you might catch if you have any kind of cable or satellite TV. It lasted one season only, and was then killed by the original network. Joss Whedon (producer of Buffy and Angel) created it. They made a movie released to theatres called "Serentity". Both season one and "Serentiy" can be found on DVD (or if you wish, on Torrent sites round the world). IF you do watch it, be sure to see the episodes in the order created, not the order originally shown on TV (that was what really killed the series, as it was important to see the character development and interaction evolve.

And I agree with your sentiments about the music in the Homeworld games, it was great stuff... Homeworld and Homeworld: Cataclysm are 2 of the few reasons why I regret switchng to Linux, since I haven't tried getting wine running yet.

i know, but how exactly do we get around to asking for music from those guys? I clicked on the music and I got to somewhere where I choose between buying a download or buying a cd. Wink

Take a look under the license link, particularlly the non-commercal terms.

@geoscope: I loved Serenity. So Firefly is essentially the prequel to Serenity? hmm Let's see if I could find it. But torrent-hunting for very large files is also a no-no here, like sat cable.

With homeworld. Is it true that the game is dead?No more further games forever? I'd like to work on a Homeworld mod in a first-person shooter perspective, but I'll put that off, until VegaStrike gets better. 'Sides, I'm an idiot in advanced coding.

@Bjorneredtail

GOOD NEWS!

I posted a message in their forums yesterday asking how we could get access to folk techno. And I got two emails from Magnatune licensing, and an independent musician, both offering help. I'm impressed. Really

I'm feeling unsure right now as to how to handle this. Since, I'm in graphics, not music.

Any volunteers in creating correspondence between Vega Strike and Magnatune? It would benefit VS immensely. Please please please...

Core Devs?


I'll post the particulars in another thread for it to be more visible. Hey, this might be VS's big break into REAL music.