Some issues I noticed about the game (pr1.2 w/PU1.1b6-DSE)

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Gavinfoxx
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Some issues I noticed about the game (pr1.2 w/PU1.1b6-DSE)

Post by Gavinfoxx »

So where is the list of things that officially have to be done in Parallel Universe, specifically the DSE version? There are a few main issues that I found, and I'm not sure which of these are PR issues, which are PU issues, and which are PU-DSE issues... so regardless, here are the issues:

some of the bars need chairs where people are, switching to and from turrets is difficult, if you die when you are switched to a turret, you can still move the turret around...

I've been flying the Sabre, and I think all the ships should have the minimum amount of cargo space in them necessary to do the plots... so you don't see your ship carrying more than you actually should be able to.

...the autotrackers say that all ships can autotrack a little, and I havent noticed this, perhaps all ships SHOULD be able to autotrack a little?

...many ships don't have the ability to put the tungsten hull on them for some reason, and many ships cant get any shields that are 2.0 when they can do 2.5 for some reason...

Sometimes ships that you are fighting go back to blue in the middle of fighting them...

The Gladius is not available, both some sort of gladius and some sort of kuhkri should be available... and should either of these have four guns or three or what? should they have a gun in a wierd spot on the left, or should that be a "special" only spot? I thought symmetry of human fighters was fairly canonical in wing commander games?

Sometimes you can take damage to the hull without taking some to armor first? What is up with that?

Shouldn't the various different repair things be easier to see which is best? Just "repair system mkI, repair system mk2, repair system mkIII, etc...", cause right now, its tough to figure out which is the best repair system, especially with wierd ones at oxford.

So which kilrathi fighters should humans have access to? Isnt it supposed to be a pretty rare thing for people to have access to ANY kilrathi fighters, no matter how old?

Should turrets have access to turbolasers? Cause IMO, that would probably be the best thing for turrets to fire...unless if you can increase a turret's reactor!

When you are in a turret, there is no restrictions on where you can look, you can look inside your ship and still try to shoot! erk, when is this gonna be fixed? And should turrets automatically be "on" when you start flying?

There is a wierd looking missile...thing that doesnt seem to be possible to buy. what is it and what is it supposed to be?

What are the wierd lance weapons that some of the capships use? I heard something about disruptors? should those be available for purchase?

Which cockpits are 'finalized'? Cause I was really dissapointed that the sabre and raptor cockpits didnt use the traditional ones...

Sometimes ships would just fire one of their weapons off into space all the time, what is up with that? and should AI fighters have their tractor beams on when they are fighting, cause they seem to be doing that sometimes...

So that's what I have so far. I'll keep editing this post and adding stuff as I think of it!
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Post by Dilloh »

So where is the list of things that officially have to be done in Parallel Universe, specifically the DSE version? There are a few main issues that I found, and I'm not sure which of these are PR issues, which are PU issues, and which are PU-DSE issues
A list of "jobs" doesn't actually exist. We usually pick up things of our own interest or things many people want to see and then try to implement it. Current big projects are rebalancing the trade system (Melonhead), rebalancing the ships (Zool) and writing new campaigns (me). If you look up changelog.txt, you'll see a list of what has been done and a short list of possible items for the future.
Bigger projects for the future are:
The Steltek Campaign
The Militia Guild Campaign
Possible port to Gemini Gold (if possible/requested)
PU is an older version of PU-DSE, so there is no need to see them divided in this case.
some of the bars need chairs where people are
I assume you mean this from graphical side, which means the fixers are not sitting on chairs? PU has a lack of capable artworkers; I'll keep it in mind.
switching to and from turrets is difficult
Difficult - why? Difficulties in using them or getting used to the new perspective?
if you die when you are switched to a turret, you can still move the turret around...
That's a PR problem. Turrets are ships mounted onto your ship. The problem is code-related, and altering hardcode is far beyond my or any other modders possibilities out there. Since PR is no further being developed, we'll have to live with that. I think it's a known engine problem. If there'd be a way to erase this one, the devs would have done long time ago.
I've been flying the Sabre, and I think all the ships should have the minimum amount of cargo space in them necessary to do the plots... so you don't see your ship carrying more than you actually should be able to.
I agree, but on the other hand, we'd need at least 40 units for that - which makes cargo runs even profitable in Stilettos. Plus, we'd have to raise cargo space for merchant ships to compensate the missing advantage for them, leaving a Galaxy with about 500 cargo units. This means about 100000 credits per mission cargo run, x3. Too much IMHO.
...the autotrackers say that all ships can autotrack a little, and I havent noticed this, perhaps all ships SHOULD be able to autotrack a little?
I don't exactly understand, do you mean to have low-capable autotrackers as standard-mount?
...many ships don't have the ability to put the tungsten hull on them for some reason, and many ships cant get any shields that are 2.0 when they can do 2.5 for some reason...
Now that's a PU bug. Maybe z30 has made a mistake in those early stages. Zool, could you take care of this?
Sometimes ships that you are fighting go back to blue in the middle of fighting them...
The damage textures of some ships haven't been implemented, which I currently put in as low priority. I have the WCU ship pack on my box and will take a look at that as soon as the current projects are done. Sorry if this will take a long time, but we are currently only 3 persons working intensively on PU.
The Gladius is not available, both some sort of gladius and some sort of kuhkri should be available... and should either of these have four guns or three or what? should they have a gun in a wierd spot on the left, or should that be a "special" only spot? I thought symmetry of human fighters was fairly canonical in wing commander games?
The Gladius is being unlocked during the Privateer main campaign, while the Kukhri is a fan-made ship. z30 threw in a lot of ships while creating PU, many of them were quite buggy. Concerning symmetry, I agree. The problem is z30 created the ship, and I created the HUD. Maybe I had wrong informations while I created it. I'll also take a look at the Kukhri ASAP.
Sometimes you can take damage to the hull without taking some to armor first? What is up with that?
That is the simulation of chaos and meant to be by the engine. Take a melon and put it into a motorcycle helmet. Beat the helmet with a sledge hammer. The armor is not comparable with a shield system.
Shouldn't the various different repair things be easier to see which is best? Just "repair system mkI, repair system mk2, repair system mkIII, etc...", cause right now, its tough to figure out which is the best repair system, especially with wierd ones at oxford.
Good point. This is why I simply don't use any of those systems. I'll try to find out what the worst and what the best is and then we'll rename those babys.
So which kilrathi fighters should humans have access to? Isnt it supposed to be a pretty rare thing for people to have access to ANY kilrathi fighters, no matter how old?
PU was originally supposed to offer more ships to players, no matter if this is canon or not. I'm going to lock all ships except of Tarsus, Centurion, Galaxy and Orion into adequate campaigns. Buying Sarthas at Oxford is unlogical. The next update will have some of those campaigns where some ships have gone and need to be unlocked by doing something special.
Should turrets have access to turbolasers? Cause IMO, that would probably be the best thing for turrets to fire...unless if you can increase a turret's reactor!
Consider this to be at the todo-list.
When you are in a turret, there is no restrictions on where you can look, you can look inside your ship and still try to shoot! erk, when is this gonna be fixed? And should turrets automatically be "on" when you start flying?
No fix to expected. Code-related PR issue. Maybe Gemini Gold will have this fixed, I don't know. We have permission to use GG code so if they have good improvements, we'll just put it in.
There is a wierd looking missile...thing that doesnt seem to be possible to buy. what is it and what is it supposed to be?
The missile turret, shooting missiles instead of gun bolts. Sometimes you can buy it, I seem to remember that it uses a lot of upgrade space.
What are the wierd lance weapons that some of the capships use? I heard something about disruptors? should those be available for purchase?
If you mean capship turrets, those are hardcoded into the ship. They are bought automatically with your Paradigm/Kamekh/DraymanCVL. AI usage like you do with a turret.
Which cockpits are 'finalized'? Cause I was really dissapointed that the sabre and raptor cockpits didnt use the traditional ones...
I don't know, but if you have good ore canon cockpits, feel free to post them. I'm not that deep informed within wing commander canonity, but I'd be happy to put anything in.
Sometimes ships would just fire one of their weapons off into space all the time, what is up with that? and should AI fighters have their tractor beams on when they are fighting, cause they seem to be doing that sometimes...
Yeah, wired behaviour is known in those games. Sometimes wingmen attack escorts or themselves for no reasons, pirates using tractor beams and guns to suck something up, retros hunting debris, galaxys attacking with tractor beams, etc. That's AI related and possibly solvable, but it won't happen unless somebody will be very familiar with the AI scripts.
So that's what I have so far. I'll keep editing this post and adding stuff as I think of it!
It'd be better to just add new posts. Thanks for your feedback.
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Post by Zool »

Dilloh wrote:
Gavinfoxx wrote:I've been flying the Sabre, and I think all the ships should have the minimum amount of cargo space in them necessary to do the plots... so you don't see your ship carrying more than you actually should be able to.
I agree, but on the other hand, we'd need at least 40 units for that - which makes cargo runs even profitable in Stilettos. Plus, we'd have to raise cargo space for merchant ships to compensate the missing advantage for them, leaving a Galaxy with about 500 cargo units. This means about 100000 credits per mission cargo run, x3. Too much IMHO.
Oh dear, you are not going to like what I have done in the New ZR then, Gavinfoxx. I have spent several days going over the list of changes and looking at each ship carefully and have decided to adjust the cargo hold size for each ship based on what I think/hope is a realistic approach. Some have had their cargo space reduced (Yes, especially for the Draymans, Paradigm and Kamekh. Trivia: Did you know that a Paradigm could hold another Paradigm or Drayman in it's hold?), and a few have been enlarged slightly. One of the main things I took into account was the size, shape and design of each ship. Just looking at some of them clearly tells you that there isnt much room for cargo. Though I agree with Dilloh that, yes, you probably should (and I emphasise "should") be able to do the campaigns in any ship, IMHO I think that it's just not possible or even slightly realistic. Just look at the light fighters, just where does the extra space come from. In reference to Holy WC itself, where in WC1, 2, 3, 4, 5, did you see or hear of any cargo space on any fighter? There isn't any, none. (OK, the game didn't need any so there wasn't any). Some ships are designed/built to haul cargo, some are not. Again, IMHO, If you want to haul large amounts of cargo all the time, then I think you should use one of the many ships already available for that job.
PS This is just my opinion and I do not wish to offend. :D
Dilloh wrote:
Gavinfoxx wrote:
Shouldn't the various different repair things be easier to see which is best? Just "repair system mkI, repair system mk2, repair system mkIII, etc...", cause right now, its tough to figure out which is the best repair system, especially with wierd ones at oxford.
Good point. This is why I simply don't use any of those systems. I'll try to find out what the worst and what the best is and then we'll rename those babys.
I can answer this for you, The Repair Droids are much more effective than the Repair Systems. (If I have room I put the advanced one of each on and repairs take no time at all.)
So, best to worst.
1. Adv Droid
2. Droid
3. Adv System
4. System
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

What about the experimental repair AI's at oxford? And can you stack repair systems? What ways do they stack? Could you have an advanced droid, an advanced system, and an advanced AI?

And when I said go blue, I meant the targeting box/hostility indicator.

Also, are we going to do the matter compression thing a la freelancer?

So there is *no one* working on the actual base code of privateer remake? Who used to work on it? Why did they stop?
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Post by Shissui »

...many ships don't have the ability to put the tungsten hull on them for some reason,
Inherited from the VS engine. If your armour is already better than what you plan to upgrade to, you cannot upgrade.
Sometimes you can take damage to the hull without taking some to armor first? What is up with that?
Also from the VS engine. Each ship design has an efficiency rating for shields & armour, to rate how effective it is at protecting you. While most ships have an efficiency of (1,1), there are exceptions. These efficiency values are used by the engine to allow a hit (or part of a hit) to bypass your shields &/or armour.
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

Shissui wrote:
...many ships don't have the ability to put the tungsten hull on them for some reason,
Inherited from the VS engine. If your armour is already better than what you plan to upgrade to, you cannot upgrade.
Sometimes you can take damage to the hull without taking some to armor first? What is up with that?
Also from the VS engine. Each ship design has an efficiency rating for shields & armour, to rate how effective it is at protecting you. While most ships have an efficiency of (1,1), there are exceptions. These efficiency values are used by the engine to allow a hit (or part of a hit) to bypass your shields &/or armour.
But I can put on the plasteel armor, just not the tungsten armor... :(
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Post by Shissui »

Gavinfoxx wrote:But I can put on the plasteel armor, just not the tungsten armor... :(
Just tested -- I could not reproduce your concern on my machine for any ship that does not already have better than tungsten and I could not install plasteel armour for those ships either.

Please describe your problem much more clearly, so that we can see what might be different between your configuration & mine. ie: which ships? where? when in the plot line? Do you have Parallel Universe loaded? (If so, which revision?) . . . Anything else that you think might be different?
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

How do I quickly cheat to get a bunch of money to test this on different ships?
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

What is the exact button or command to switch two and from a turret? I cant seem to figure out what does that, and how to get back...
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

Dilloh wrote:
I've been flying the Sabre, and I think all the ships should have the minimum amount of cargo space in them necessary to do the plots... so you don't see your ship carrying more than you actually should be able to.
I agree, but on the other hand, we'd need at least 40 units for that - which makes cargo runs even profitable in Stilettos. Plus, we'd have to raise cargo space for merchant ships to compensate the missing advantage for them, leaving a Galaxy with about 500 cargo units. This means about 100000 credits per mission cargo run, x3. Too much IMHO.
You could fix it by raising all the ship upgrade prices and the and the docking fees.

At the moment the docking fee's are 500 credits, maybe that should be the base but it would cost more to refual your ship after several jumps.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

Dilloh wrote:
I've been flying the Sabre, and I think all the ships should have the minimum amount of cargo space in them necessary to do the plots... so you don't see your ship carrying more than you actually should be able to.
I agree, but on the other hand, we'd need at least 40 units for that - which makes cargo runs even profitable in Stilettos. Plus, we'd have to raise cargo space for merchant ships to compensate the missing advantage for them, leaving a Galaxy with about 500 cargo units. This means about 100000 credits per mission cargo run, x3. Too much IMHO.
You could make everything else more expensive, and that reminds me of some thing a friend brought to my atention. The docking fees are 500 creds, That may be the base price but it should be more expensive if you have made several jumps. It should be atlest 500 extra for every jump because the base has to import fuel.
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Post by Dilloh »

Zool wrote:Trivia: Did you know that a Paradigm could hold another Paradigm or Drayman in it's hold?
No, but I know that a Paradigm can carry two Paradigms in its cargo bay... :lol:
Zool wrote:you probably should (and I emphasise "should") be able to do the campaigns in any ship
You can do any campaign cargo mission in any ship... I tested it with my Troy campaign. It has a cargo mission using 100 spaces. I tested in a Fireblade, leaving me with -80 space left. Though this is not realistic, you can do it. It doesn't work with stock or barfixer cargo missions though, and that's good.
Zool wrote:Again, IMHO, If you want to haul large amounts of cargo all the time, then I think you should use one of the many ships already available for that job.
That's what the game is all about. Decide what you do, choose what you use. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. That's all about balance.
Zool wrote:So, best to worst.
1. Adv Droid
2. Droid
3. Adv System
4. System
Thx, but I'm missing Oxfords repair AI. Is this stand-alone or add-on for the existing repair things? Feel free to rename them btw.
Gavinfoxx wrote:Could you have an advanced droid, an advanced system, and an advanced AI?
You sometimes can buy multiple items, especially on capships, but I doubt if they have a cumulating effect. This needs to be tested.
Gavinfoxx wrote:And when I said go blue, I meant the targeting box/hostility indicator.
If you're friendly with a faction but need to attack one of them because it's your mission objective, the game just can't decide what the priority is - friendship or mission foe. PR issue.
Shissui wrote:Each ship design has an efficiency rating for shields & armour, to rate how effective it is at protecting you. While most ships have an efficiency of (1,1), there are exceptions. These efficiency values are used by the engine to allow a hit (or part of a hit) to bypass your shields &/or armour.
And here we go for the technical explanation. :wink:
Gavinfoxx wrote:But I can put on the plasteel armor, just not the tungsten armor...
I assume z30 did this for PU ships for showing that those ships are from a former era, just like Ferrets for example. They were introduced in WC2. In 2669, they're simply crap, compared with other ships available. It is reasonable, like having shield restrictions, that some sorts of armor just won't fit on elder ship designs.
Gavinfoxx wrote:How do I quickly cheat to get a bunch of money to test this on different ships?
By hacking your savegame - open up /privateer/.privateer100/save/nameofsavegame with WordPad and search the first line where your ship is situated, e.g.:

Code: Select all

Gemini/Perry^100033048.000000^fireblade -13567.857383 -16759.560208 398.142617
The 100033048.000000 are currently my credits, edit the value you wish, but I'd suggest to backup first.
Gavinfoxx wrote:What is the exact button or command to switch two and from a turret? I cant seem to figure out what does that, and how to get back...
Sorry, I'm using a german keyboard layout. Look up the PR manual.
MAS wrote:You could fix it by raising all the ship upgrade prices and the and the docking fees.
I remember the original Privateer to have the campaign missions as the super-payment missions. Raising everything would not only affect upgrade prices, but also merc missions, campaigns, etc. It'd take months to do so, not talking about balance beta tests.
MAS wrote:At the moment the docking fee's are 500 credits, maybe that should be the base but it would cost more to refual your ship after several jumps.
The price is 50 and yes, that's not enough. I'd even raise it to 1000 or if we find a possibility, ship-dependant (e.g. cargo hold x10).
MAS wrote:That may be the base price but it should be more expensive if you have made several jumps. It should be atlest 500 extra for every jump because the base has to import fuel.
I agree, but I currently don't know where the price is set. Since docking fees are most likely hardcoded, I think it won't be possible to make the prices flexible.
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Post by Shissui »

Zool wrote:So, best to worst.
1. Adv Droid
2. Droid
3. Adv System
4. System
Add:
0. repair ai

The "repair ai" is better than a droid.
Gavinfoxx wrote:Could you have an advanced droid, an advanced system, and an advanced AI?
Inherited from the VS engine again -- you can install several different repair units, as long as you purchase them in order from worst to best. As with the armour, you cannot install a worse unit over top of a better one. However, there is no merit in keeping multiple systems as your ship will only use the best one available.

It was designed this way to allow you to sell your old unit at a better price somewhere else. Although PR does not offer a different price any where else, VS will not buy your old unit at all at some locations.
Dilloh wrote:You sometimes can buy multiple items, especially on capships, but I doubt if they have a cumulating effect. This needs to be tested.
It *may* have been changed, but it would have required explicit code to do so. I think this is unlikely merely because there is always so much more to program than there are coders around.
Gavinfoxx wrote:What is the exact button or command to switch two and from a turret? I cant seem to figure out what does that, and how to get back...
On a US 102 keyboard, it would be "]". Repeated presses will allow you to cycle through additional turrets.
Dilloh wrote:
MAS wrote:That may be the base price but it should be more expensive if you have made several jumps. It should be at least 500 extra for every jump because the base has to import fuel.
I agree, but I currently don't know where the price is set. Since docking fees are most likely hardcoded, I think it won't be possible to make the prices flexible.
I would expect that to be in the PR code somewhere, rather than in the VS core. So it should be easier to change. (but still appreciably harder than changing your current cash.)
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Post by Zool »

Dilloh wrote:Thx, but I'm missing Oxfords repair AI. Is this stand-alone or add-on for the existing repair things?
I have not heard of this repair AI before now. I must check it out.

As for not being able to fit different armour on certain ships this is what I have found out. If you look in the units.csv at [shipname.blank] for scimitar, raptor and other WC imported ships you will notice that they have a value in their respective armour columns. Now look at [shipname.blank] for demon, centurion or any privateer ship and the armour values are blank. I'm not quite sure why you can put Plasteel on but not Tungsten or Isometal, though......however.......

If you want to be able to put any armour on any ship check the [shipname.blank] entry for the ship you want to modify, scroll across till you find the armour values and delete them. Save your units.csv and go try it. Don't forget to backup first. Oh, and check the units180.csv for the same entry as well.
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Post by Shissui »

Zool wrote:
Dilloh wrote:Thx, but I'm missing Oxfords repair AI. Is this stand-alone or add-on for the existing repair things?
I have not heard of this repair AI before now. I must check it out.
Available at Oxford (but not all the time) after starting Righteous Fire.
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

I can get the repair AI before starting RF...
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

Okay, I did some testing, and most of the "new" ships cant seem to get the tungsten hull...

Also, the sabre isnt really much better than the centurion, since it can only have a bit more missiles... but it has less armor... if the centurion is medium and the sabre is heavy, shouldnt the sabre maybe be able to hold more shields? at least have it hold equal armor!

So what do I do to get to try out the sparrowhawk? the original gladius? The demon?
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Post by Zool »

Sparrowhawk can be bought at the Drayman in orbit around Speke/Junction system anytime. Gladius becomes available after you finish the Privateer campaign, Demon becomes available after the Palan missions. The best places to buy the ships are Perry for Confed ships and New Detroit for just about everything else. The talon is supposed to be available after the Tayla missions at the pirate base in Pentonville system.
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

I remember seeing that drayman carrier available for purchase sometimes... what places have that, generally? Is there any way to make that available more often?
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Post by Zool »

DraymanCVL, I think Perry or New Detroit, I think it's mission locked till RF. Normal drayman available after Oxford missions at Oxford, I think.
Do a forum search for this one, the info is out there.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

I can't get DraymanCVL and the orbital one is invisible, and at speke i can't buy any thing or repair my ship and noone is in the bar.
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Post by Dilloh »

Gavinfoxx wrote:I remember seeing that drayman carrier available for purchase sometimes... what places have that, generally? Is there any way to make that available more often?
I think I recently found the values you are talking about. I'm currently doing some experiments, but I'm pretty sure that I can enlarge the chance to get any kind of capship more often. Gimme some time. I only saw a Drayman once, that was in New Detroit (except of Oxford-campaign of course).
Zool wrote:DraymanCVL, I think Perry or New Detroit, I think it's mission locked till RF. Normal drayman available after Oxford missions at Oxford, I think.
To clarify that: The DraymanCVL is currently NOT buyable. z30 accidentally messed that up. I saw an entry for a base once, but it didn't work and I don't remember where it was. Since I currently work at the Speke campaign, consider it buyable with the next update.
MAS wrote:I can't get DraymanCVL and the orbital one is invisible, and at speke i can't buy any thing or repair my ship and noone is in the bar.
This tires me alot, but again, which version(s) of PU/canonHUDs do you use and did you run setup.bat?
Currently, there is no character supposed to sit in the bar at speke... that'll change soon :wink:
huzelbub
Trader
Trader
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:26 pm

Post by huzelbub »

Dilloh wrote:I remember the original Privateer to have the campaign missions as the super-payment missions.
Speaking of which, campaign mission payments are just ridiculous. To get to Palan missions you'll need at least a galaxy with autotrackers at least on the torpedo launcher. Add two turrets and that's quite a pile of credits. Campaign missions pay 10000 most of the time. You would need about 40 of them to equip your ship just to be able to start the campaign. Once you're ready to start they are hardly enough to compensate for the repairs (it's not too unusual if your targetting system gets fried by those nasty demons, again). If it's possible the payments just need to be multiplied, especially with ZR making stuff more expensive. You shouldn't do 20 "super-payment missions" just to reequip the B&S Omni...
Higher payments would also make the campaign more attractive also to those who play Privateer for the nth time. Why care about 10000 creds when I can get three cargo missions for about 50000 each?
Gavinfoxx
Merchant
Merchant
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:22 am

Post by Gavinfoxx »

Yea, I think zool should make an alternate version of the rebalance that doesnt drastically increase the cost of things, so that the repair costs are more normal...

Also, in the original and the rebalance, what weapons do phase damage?
Dilloh
Elite Hunter
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:56 pm
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Post by Dilloh »

Don't worry about the payments guys, Zool will only touch a few items.

I can easily raise the payment for campaign missions if that is your common wish.

Making two versions of the rebalance is unnecessary work - let's bring it out and await feedback afterwards, so if things are really to expensive, you'll realize that via gameplay... among with most of the other users. We can revert anything we implement, remember that.

Phase damage is currently restricted to the BoostedSteltek only.
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