Updated version of Zool's Rebalance

Forum For Privateer Remake
micheal_andreas_stahl
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

@Dilloh, i ment just asking him if it is possibly and how to if needed. I heard him say something about it before.
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Post by Zool »

Don't panic everyone, A major part of ZR is having the equipment take up different amounts of upgrade space. I'm going to adjust the amount of space each ship has so that you will have to be very selective about what you mount. Yes I plan on giving light ships, including the Demon everyone is so worried about, the ability to mount UP TO level 4 shields and reactors. The balance is that there will be VERY little room for other equipment if you mount the bigger shields and reactors. This gives everyone the ability to "customise" their own ship to their own tastes, and you don't have to mount big if you don't want to. Oh, and I won't be changing the Fireblade at all, just everything else.....lol :shock: :wink:
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Dilloh
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Post by Dilloh »

MAS wrote:@Dilloh, i ment just asking him if it is possibly and how to if needed. I heard him say something about it before.
No prob, but I have had tight contact with chuck and if you followed the WCU forum threads you've seen that he spends 99% of his time on ship modelling and WC0 efforts. So I'd rather try it for myself first, then ask devs if I fail.

Concerning the Troy campaign, I have to admit a delay. I was too motivated so I scripted 3 missions at once and now can't isolate an error, but it is a matter of days.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

Dilloh wrote:Concerning the Troy campaign, I have to admit a delay. I was too motivated so I scripted 3 missions at once and now can't isolate an error, but it is a matter of days.
Slow and Steady wins the race. Do it at a pace that suits what you can cope with.
Zool wrote: Yes I plan on giving light ships, including the Demon everyone is so worried about, the ability to mount UP TO level 4 shields and reactors. The balance is that there will be VERY little room for other equipment if you mount the bigger shields and reactors.
Well be careful, as you you might loss business there is a lot of demon pilots out their. :) Well i hop it is not made to "light", because it was thought to be made "medium".
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Post by Zool »

Hmmmm, maybe I should just leave the demon alone if it's that popular, maybe not. Do all you demon pilots out there want it left stock?? Let's have a poll on this one.

Demon Poll
michael_andreas_stahl wrote:Well be careful, as you you might loss business there is a lot of demon pilots out their. Well i hop it is not made to "light", because it was thought to be made "medium".
It has always been my thought that the demon should be a Medium fighter and the Centurion should be a Heavy fighter.

@MAS, I have started the Bonus Campaign walkthrough, part1 keeping on the good side of the law.
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Post by Zool »

RE: ZR1b1
Well this is what I have come up with so far. This is probably anybody's last chance to offer any comments before I start work on the actual files.

I have put a lot of time and effort into calculating the mass and volumes for the equipment upgrades, the available space on the ships, and the cargo hold sizes. The last section on the changes to ships may appear confusing, it is more for my benefit but it will give everyone a good idea of what I'm implementing.
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Post by Shissui »

You have not included the Oxford Repair ai.
I think that "Small Cargo Enhancer" is an RF Upgrade.

Why does it take the same mass/volume to put {any} armour on a Stilleto as on a Paradigm?

I have not calculated it out, but it is not clear to me if I would be able to keep all of the upgrades that I currently have installed on my Demon.
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Post by Zool »

Shissui wrote:You have not included the Oxford Repair ai.
Hehe, like I said , I didn't know about it until yesterday. Consider it added.
I think that "Small Cargo Enhancer" is an RF Upgrade.
Are you sure? (I can"t remember). If it is it might be handy to have it available from the start as some ships with small cargo holds can't use the bigger one.
Why does it take the same mass/volume to put {any} armour on a Stilleto as on a Paradigm?
Now that is a very good question. I didn't think of that specifically, however I seem to remember the one time I flew a Paradigm that I couldn't put additional armour on it anyway.

The only way I can think of to allow for this inconsistency would be to create a new set of armours and hulls suitable only for cap ship. ie: cap_ship_plasteel armour, cap_ship_tungsten hull. Thei it could have the mass and volume suitable for a ship that size. Also the cost would be significant.

THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!! Thanks Shissui :D
I have not calculated it out, but it is not clear to me if I would be able to keep all of the upgrades that I currently have installed on my Demon.
That would depend on what equipment you used.

Here is one of the excel tables I used:
This is the equipment I deem essential.
Ship: Demon Available Space: 12
Equip: Volume
Reactor L3 2.5
Shield L3 2
AB 1
JE 2
ECM3 0.3
Iso Armr 1.5
Iso Hull 2
B&S Omni 0.5
Equip Tot 11.8
Avail Space 0.2

This equipment I consider additional but not necessary.
Equip: Volume
Turn Enh 0.5
Thrust Enh 0.5
Speed Enh 2
Rep Sys 0.5
Rep Sys Adv 1
Rep Adv 1.5
Rep Drd Adv 2
Gun Cooler 1
Shld Regen 1.5

As you can see there's no room left after the essential equipment. RF would give you a +2 to the upgrade volume space.........Hmmm maybe it could be reduced just a bit. What upgrades do you have on your Demon?What's your suggestion? Do you think it needs to cut back to say, 10?

I'm happy to rethink everything, that's why I posted the readme. I wanted you to pick at it and hopefully offer suggestions as well.

Thanks, Z 8) l
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Post by Shissui »

Zool wrote:
Shissui wrote:Why does it take the same mass/volume to put {any} armour on a Stilleto as on a Paradigm?
Now that is a very good question. I didn't think of that specifically, however I seem to remember the one time I flew a Paradigm that I couldn't put additional armour on it anyway.

The only way I can think of to allow for this inconsistency would be to create a new set of armours and hulls suitable only for cap ship. ie: cap_ship_plasteel armour, cap_ship_tungsten hull. Thei it could have the mass and volume suitable for a ship that size. Also the cost would be significant.
Actually, you are right on that one. A Paradigm has default armour too large to add more. I should have used a Broadsword as the larger example case.

For implementation -- I suggest you divide armour upgrades into L/M/H Fighters. All the cap ships have custom armour & can't install this stuff anyway.
This equipment I consider additional but not necessary.
Um, err, the space killer on *my* Demon is the 2xSpeed Enhancer & the shield regen booster & the repair AI -- remember, my shields leak so I really do need a repair system.
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Post by Zool »

@Shissiu
Excellent, as you're the only person giving me anything to work with so far, I'll use you as a base line for now. Give me a full list of equipment you have/want on you Demon.
I have not calculated it out, but it is not clear to me if I would be able to keep all of the upgrades that I currently have installed on my Demon.

You have just given me a new idea/way to calculate the space. Also I didn't read you correctly. I didn't see the "not" in your statement.

Just remember, In ZR the idea is that if you want the maximum shields and reactor allowable (Level 3 for light ships instead of level 2) you have to sacrifice space for other equipment. This is the balancing part. :)

@ ALL Demon owners:
Post your full equipment lists please. This would be helpful. (Should have thought of this earlier) :lol:
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Post by Shissui »

Zool wrote:Give me a full list of equipment you have/want on you Demon.
Rather -- let me explain the design logic. My Demon is tweaked heavily so that I do not get hit. It does not take damage well, especially with the leaky shields. SO, my only real defence is to NOT be where the guns are firing in the first place. Besides, it is really satisfying to finish a dogfight with full shields.

2x(speed, thrust, turn) are the core of this, as it allows me to always be where "they" are not currently shooting. If the game would let me take 3x of these, I would probably take (1,3,3). My reactor is a bit limiting, but my shield 2 is perfectly adequate as long as I am paying proper attention to staying where they are not shooting at.

I have the regen booster installed because my shield recovery rate matters much more than how much total shielding I have. A gun cooler is necessary, as I need to use up my capacitor banks very fast when I do find myself pointed at something that needs cooking -- unless it is a Kameh I am shooting at, I cannot expect to maintain continuous fire on a target.

The repair & radar are not negotiable. The B&S Omni is inadequate for some of the RF missions, so I have doubled its detection range with a hack. And, since the Demon is a light fighter, its shields leak -- so I really need to repair those hits fast.
@ ALL Demon owners:
I think of it more as a "demon lover" -- I like the double entendre.

Besides, it isn't the people "owning" a Demon that you want. You want your feedback from people like MAS & I -- who take out the light fighters by preference.
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

Zool, remember, some people wanted the repair systems to be "Repair System Mk I, Mk II, Mk III, etc." in order to make them easier to distinguish... make sure to accommodate that!

And are there any ships that I can use to learn the demon fighting style early on, so I get good at that sort of dogfighting?
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Post by Dilloh »

Shissui wrote:For implementation -- I suggest you divide armour upgrades into L/M/H Fighters.
Sorry, but are we in for realism rather than gameplay? I don't think we'd do the players a favor when we make multiple items having the same effect. Keep one type of armor for fighters.
Shissui wrote:All the cap ships have custom armour & can't install this stuff anyway.
Yeah, sounds good. Since capships already have a milspec armor, just leave the other out.
Zool wrote:Post your full equipment lists please. This would be helpful.
shields2, reactor2, ecm3, bseye, 4laser+at, guncooler, ab, jd, isometal, tractorbeam, dumbfires, and a cloak (hehe).
Zool wrote:Besides, it isn't the people "owning" a Demon that you want. You want your feedback from people like MAS & I -- who take out the light fighters by preference.
Let me make a proposition: Just DO the rebalance for canonHUDs2.0, wait for the feedback and then do remaining fine adjustments. Since only a handful of people are talking about the demon here, I believe most people will see what changed when they actually use the changes. We can revert anything unpopular later.
Gavinfoxx wrote:Zool, remember, some people wanted the repair systems to be "Repair System Mk I, Mk II, Mk III, etc." in order to make them easier to distinguish... make sure to accommodate that!
That'd be also my wish. Maybe you could even melt the different categories and just call those thing repair droids (I could lock the oxford ai into a campaign?).
Gavinfoxx wrote:And are there any ships that I can use to learn the demon fighting style early on, so I get good at that sort of dogfighting?
I don't want to advertise, but the best ship to learn how to survive with low shields and high speed is IMHO the Fireblade. Alternatively, Ferret and Hornet are also poor fighters but really nasty to dogfight.
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Post by Shissui »

Gavinfoxx wrote:And are there any ships that I can use to learn the demon fighting style early on, so I get good at that sort of dogfighting?
The Demon is the first one officially available. However, if you upgrade the cargo space on your Tarsus, you should be able to tractor in a light fighter. Once it is in your hold, you sell it to a base on the commodities board & repurchase it from the ship dealer.

The hard part will be that all of the light fighters are faster than your Tarsus -- so I suggest ambushing a friendly ship.
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Post by Gavinfoxx »

So what other light fighters are able to do the crazy dodging thing that the demon can do, but aren't necessarily as good as the demon?
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Post by Shissui »

Gavinfoxx wrote:So what other light fighters are able to do the crazy dodging thing that the demon can do, but aren't necessarily as good as the demon?
Any light fighter can dodge, as they all tend to have an appreciable manoeuver advantage (&, to some extent, they all *must* do it to survive).

A Stilleto is probably a good ship to start with. Because it has an exceptionally high top speed, you can more easily flee if you start feeling a bit toasty. Besides, Stilletos are really easy to find as the Confeds use them to patrol most of their systems.

Alternatively, Dilloh's Fireblade is probably another good choice. Anything with a cloak allows you to end the combat quickly if you are loosing. The disadvantage of the Fireblade is that it doesn't pack as much punch as some of the others, so it takes more work (& thus more dodging) to get your kill.
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Post by micheal_andreas_stahl »

Shissui wrote:The disadvantage of the Fireblade is that it doesn't pack as much punch as some of the others, so it takes more work (& thus more dodging) to get your kill.
It is just a fancy talon. That is the problem with the talon. If you want to learn how to take a cap ship out with a scratch, learn to fly in a talon. If you can suvive in a talon then you can fly any ship.
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Post by Zool »

@melonhead
Have you a final version of your commodities changes? If you do then PM the file(s) to me and I'll incorporate them into what I have done and send it on to Dilloh. If that's ok with everyone.
ZR should be ready by the end of this weekend. (Fingers crossed) :)
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Post by Dilloh »

Guys, what's the status? -- campaign no. 4 is completed

When can I expect the ZR/cargo update?
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Post by Zool »

Dilloh, I'll have the cargo updates in the master_part_list done tonight, (it's Monday morning now, I wasn't able to get as much done as I wanted over the weekend :x ) though I would like a day to test it myself before I pass it on. Provided Melonhead has no more to add I'll send it to you Tuesday night my time.
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