Joysticks mandatory?
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- Elite Venturer
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Joysticks mandatory?
Hi,
I was on a little trip for some weeks. I had my notebook but no joystick.
And I have to say, this experience changed my view. I always considered the Oxford and Palan missions as not any harder as all the other missions. But withought a joystick things that seem easy can be really hard.
I know many of the devs play without joystick, yet I thought I might as well start a little discussion and a little poll....
I was on a little trip for some weeks. I had my notebook but no joystick.
And I have to say, this experience changed my view. I always considered the Oxford and Palan missions as not any harder as all the other missions. But withought a joystick things that seem easy can be really hard.
I know many of the devs play without joystick, yet I thought I might as well start a little discussion and a little poll....
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Insanity is just a state of mind!
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- Bounty Hunter
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I would ALWAYS prefer mouse over joystick/gamepad when playing space simulators. But that's more like a personal feeling 'cause I got quite used to mouse control and hardly played games with joystick - gamepad for consoles only.
Generally every simulatorlike game should have the option to play with joystick/gamepad, I think. For me this makes a difference only when playing flight simulators with realistic physics for flying - those games are nearly unplayable w/o joystick.
I voted for "mandatory" 'cause I don't use it but a simulator w/o joystick control would definitly be an unfinished game in my opinion. It's a basic feature with long tradition and many fans.
Generally every simulatorlike game should have the option to play with joystick/gamepad, I think. For me this makes a difference only when playing flight simulators with realistic physics for flying - those games are nearly unplayable w/o joystick.
I voted for "mandatory" 'cause I don't use it but a simulator w/o joystick control would definitly be an unfinished game in my opinion. It's a basic feature with long tradition and many fans.
Be lenient with my english skills... still using a dictonary. http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/
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- Trader
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I would definately prefer to use a joystick, but I can't right now due to problems withs my computer's port. (Stinking integrated sound card...) So, I've been playing this and Secret Ops with just a keyboard. It does make things difficult, but I did manage to get through the entire campaign on medium. Palan 3 only took about 20-30 tries.
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- Merchant
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I don't have the repetoir of space/flight sims to justify buying a piece of equipment for it specifically. But if I may make a recommendation that might hurt some people's feelings: Microsoft makes a generic sidewinder joystick, very simple, no FF(sucks anyway), no hat, but it does have a sliding throttle.
I used that model of joystick to play Freespace 2, and it worked the best of any joystick I've ever used in my life.
For now, I'm using the mouse, and it works alright(especially with autotracking guns).. But mouse control could use some work.
I would be a lot more deadly with a nice joystick. y/p/r with the joystick, strafing thrust with wasd.
I used that model of joystick to play Freespace 2, and it worked the best of any joystick I've ever used in my life.
For now, I'm using the mouse, and it works alright(especially with autotracking guns).. But mouse control could use some work.
I would be a lot more deadly with a nice joystick. y/p/r with the joystick, strafing thrust with wasd.
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- Merchant
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I don't think the post is about suggestions for the game("exclude all but joystick control"), but how players see the use of peripherals in the game. Obviously, if you want to use mouse or keyboard control, the option is there. But is it really feasible? That's the underlying question here.
My poems crush bones into powder,
You mumble like a coward,
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(Speed Law)
You mumble like a coward,
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- Bounty Hunter
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Bad Idea...
I don't have a joystick. I've used a game pad that has a d-pad and two triggers and eight buttons before... but when I turn it jumps instead of moving smoothly.
So I use the mouse. the "inverted control" setting to be exact, just like the original. I've got no problems other than it's really hard to get any ship to move exactly straight. I've proposed earlier that if the cursor is three pixels from the exact center of the crosshair that it would act as if the ship is flying straight, but no one seemed to notice.
So I use the mouse. the "inverted control" setting to be exact, just like the original. I've got no problems other than it's really hard to get any ship to move exactly straight. I've proposed earlier that if the cursor is three pixels from the exact center of the crosshair that it would act as if the ship is flying straight, but no one seemed to notice.
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- Elite Venturer
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Sorry Halleck, my mistakeHalleck wrote:Reccomended? Sure.
Mandatory? Ludicrous.
You can't force somebody to buy a peripheral that they may not even want, or have the money for. Players should be allowed to choose as it is now.
This is a German-Engish thingy. In German you can use "Pflicht", an equvalent of mandatory, as a rhetorical increase (a hyperbole, IIRC) to say things like: "How can anybody even imagine to play the game without a joystick?"
I didn't give it a thought and have done it in English the same way.
Sorry for the missunderstanding
BTW. Funny! I never thought about using the mouse in all those days. For me it was clear: Joystick or Keyboard.
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- Elite
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When I play... I do use the joystick.
It makes my life easier, and my accuracy much better.
But when I'm testing... I just cannot pick up the joystick... leave it... pick it up again... put it away again... and so on... (mostly, because it's so big that I can't fit keyboard, mouse and joystick in the same smallish table). So... when I test... I use the keyboard.
Never used the mouse, though.
And... may I say... you can pretty much fly and fight with the keyboard, once you get the hang of it.
The technique is totally different though: evade, evade, evade... and try to score rows of hits when the target is "apparently still" (as in not changing in baring). To accomplish that using lousy controlling devices (mouse or keyboard), heavy use of shelton slide is mandatory (actually... if I enable inertial flight I become a god - but that's un-privateer)
Most of the time, to actually kill fast enough, I'll have to make full use of dual missile launchers.
Clearly... the player is much less in control of its ship when not using a joystick. But... also clearly to me... the game is still playable.
It makes my life easier, and my accuracy much better.
But when I'm testing... I just cannot pick up the joystick... leave it... pick it up again... put it away again... and so on... (mostly, because it's so big that I can't fit keyboard, mouse and joystick in the same smallish table). So... when I test... I use the keyboard.
Never used the mouse, though.
And... may I say... you can pretty much fly and fight with the keyboard, once you get the hang of it.
The technique is totally different though: evade, evade, evade... and try to score rows of hits when the target is "apparently still" (as in not changing in baring). To accomplish that using lousy controlling devices (mouse or keyboard), heavy use of shelton slide is mandatory (actually... if I enable inertial flight I become a god - but that's un-privateer)
Most of the time, to actually kill fast enough, I'll have to make full use of dual missile launchers.
Clearly... the player is much less in control of its ship when not using a joystick. But... also clearly to me... the game is still playable.
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The "very helpful, but not necessary" attitude seems most accurate to me, as far as flight sim-y games go. I've been using an old (pre-USB!) MS Sidewinder for some time now (hat but no FF). Man alive, they built those things to last.
In the original Privateer (as well as WC 1 and 2), tho, I actually got the best results with a relatively vanilla gamepad. Things seemed less nuanced then-- or maybe my teenager reflexes were just more up to speed.
In the original Privateer (as well as WC 1 and 2), tho, I actually got the best results with a relatively vanilla gamepad. Things seemed less nuanced then-- or maybe my teenager reflexes were just more up to speed.
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im very used to playing FL where its mouse drag to steer, and also the guns move... so where the mouse pointer is, is where there gunfire goes to... different to privateer in that the guns shoot straight ahead
bit of a mental remap needed that i dont think is quite happening right.
might try joystick again for the old style feel.
bit of a mental remap needed that i dont think is quite happening right.
might try joystick again for the old style feel.
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- Elite Venturer
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Isn't the way of controlling a game the huge difference between PCs and consoles? So how can the way of controlling the game then make it a console thing?Vendetta wrote: In my opinion joysticks are for consoles.
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What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
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Insanity is just a state of mind!
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- Star Pilot
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You've got a point there, but as I said before, I've never used a joystick for this type of games. Maybe is because of the sort of games I play. When I turn on my PS2 it's only to play sports games and I cannot imagine playing a sports game without a joystick. I'll test the old sidewinder with PR this weekend and give you feedback on my experience.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Isn't the way of controlling a game the huge difference between PCs and consoles? So how can the way of controlling the game then make it a console thing?Vendetta wrote: In my opinion joysticks are for consoles.
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- Elite Venturer
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looking forward to it...
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What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
---------------------------------------------------
What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
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- Elite Venturer
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how do you check joystick-matters then?
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What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
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What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
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I don't. I only had to play with the input to add some tactical commands this far, and those would be on the keyboard anyway... this much said, it's a xml file.
If there are problems w/ the joystick for the new commands, please say so
If there are problems w/ the joystick for the new commands, please say so
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- Elite Venturer
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Hell no! As far as I am concerned, everything is finespiritplumber wrote:
If there are problems w/ the joystick for the new commands, please say so
Some time ago, klauss did a vegastrike.exe which allowed joystickrolling.
Do you know if it was used for WCU or the Remake? I wouldn't know, because my joystick has only four buttons and I consider target functions to be a lot more important. Plus, I don't remember the line for the vegastrike.config...
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What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
---------------------------------------------------
What's mind? No matter... What's matter? Never Mind!
Insanity is just a state of mind!
That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.
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- Developer
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You need to hump vegastrike.config a bit... again, I know the functionality is there but I don't know how to activate it (no joystick to try it with!)
My Moral Code:
- The only sin is to treat people as if they were things.
- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
- The only sin is to treat people as if they were things.
- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
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- Elite
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You can bind a key as the rolling modifier - it doesn't have to be a joystick button.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Some time ago, klauss did a vegastrike.exe which allowed joystickrolling.
Do you know if it was used for WCU or the Remake? I wouldn't know, because my joystick has only four buttons and I consider target functions to be a lot more important. Plus, I don't remember the line for the vegastrike.config...
Just bind whatever (key, mouse button, joystick button, happy face, kicking the CPU) to Joystick::Mode::Roll (pulsor mode) or Joystick::Mode::RollToggle (toggle mode).