Orion Trader Chronicles

z30 · Post by **z30** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:09 am

JonathanD wrote:Hmmm, so the a pure aft turret as well?

You can't tell in the pic, but the back side features cargo bay doors on the lower rear of the ship, for fast enty/exit. Something like a droppable loading ramp. A turret near that would let you open the door and tractor stuff in (well, not in game, but it's a cool concept.)

You don't think giving the rear-hump turret a better line of fire would suffice? I just feel like 3 turrets is an awful lot of firepower for a merchy. though if it was somehow limited to say, at max... a meson turret, it wouldn't be.

[edit] I feel that some strong outboard thrusters would help compensate a bit for the lack of manuverabity. Make a focus on roll rate, since the ship is long and fairly thin, it's feasible to have a solid roll rate which greatly increases the usefullness of the turrets.

If not the third rear turret then abnormally thick armor for that end, much thicker than the rest of the ship. Some of the hostiles will ignore a meson turret until their shields really weaken. The roll rate won't really help the turrets because their aim is so bad, you'd have to have a big volume of fire which leads back to the "more turrets" situation

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:47 am

z30: a link to the current work-in-progress ship. http://www.dhpos.com/3rdparty/ship.jpg
I moved the rear turret waaaaaaay back to just above the cargo doors and it has very good aft coverage. I could flatten the area right above the cargo doors to make it mount as a proper aft turret.

The frontal turret has better forward coverage making a head on attack a possibilty especially with missles. The outboard fins are going to hold visible manuvering jets but are mostly there just for looks.

Keep in mind this is my first ever serious attempt at making something and this model really isn't meant as a model... (that doesn't make much sense) but rather as a testbed for this idea. I hope someone else can improve on it but I'd like to get a line into units.csv (actually already do... flying an orion with turrets floating in the middle of nowhere.)

Do you think it's fair to toss perhaps 4 dumbfires on the thing? Keeps it from being an attack craft but gives it some "oomph" in a pinch.

Finally, re: the model, obviously the turrets are for illustration only, the in-game turrets would replace them

I hadn't thought much bout aft armor (though something I think would be cool in general, transfering power to a specific shield.)

Duke Derek · Post by **Duke Derek** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:51 am

DFs would be pretty useless if it's so heavy, wouldnt be able to get head on quickly enough in my opinion

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:00 am

You think a guided of some kind would be a better match? (missles in turrets would be kinda cool but I can already see how that would be... not a good idea)

z30 · Post by **z30** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:03 am

JonathanD wrote:z30: a link to the current work-in-progress ship. http://www.dhpos.com/3rdparty/ship.jpg
I moved the rear turret waaaaaaay back to just above the cargo doors and it has very good aft coverage. I could flatten the area right above the cargo doors to make it mount as a proper aft turret.

The frontal turret has better forward coverage making a head on attack a possibilty especially with missles. The outboard fins are going to hold visible manuvering jets but are mostly there just for looks.

Do you think it's fair to toss perhaps 4 dumbfires on the thing? Keeps it from being an attack craft but gives it some "oomph" in a pinch.

I hadn't thought much bout aft armor (though something I think would be cool in general, transfering power to a specific shield.)

I LIKE it!

I agree with Duke - missiles should be guided, FF would be the best bet (minimal lock time). Would like to see missile turrets btw - that would be cool.

You might as well place the front turret higher - it's range of fire is too restricted in it's current position.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:58 am

Indeed, that's a nice ship! Unique, without being presumptuous; and functional. Shows that it pays to put thought and planning.

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:37 pm

Working on it z30, having some difficulty making it look ok with a higher frontal hump. The coverage area is a bit low but I'll tell ya... the thing looks downright threatening from the frontal view

I'm glad you guys like it, as again, this is really my first attempt at modeling... well anything. Other than the wine glass (with coaster!) http://www.dhpos.com/3rdparty/wine.jpg But unless your gonna put it in the bar, I don't think that one has a place :p

Quite frankly, I'm pretty happy with the way this is turning out and I think your right, chuck. It's designed to fill a purpose, not designed first and crammed into one. Makes a big difference.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:56 am

blank post - wrong thread

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:35 pm

Ok, onward we go. I did some basic texturing (at least, the cargo bay has visible doors now, and the whole thing has a simple gray texture. I'm gonna roughen it up a little, when I figure out how. Give me another day :p)

more important, the .csv values are working pretty well except for the turret angles!

I can't figure out just yet what those valuse mean for limiting rotations.

Anyway, overall the ship "feels" nice in flight. Bulky, but not "drayman" bulky. Turn rates are decent, you can't run from even talons directly but you can chew them up with your turrets... and if you have shelton slide turned on in the conf, you can chew them up with forward guns as well.

Stratovarius · Post by **Stratovarius** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:07 pm

Got any shots of it in game? Even with the rough texture.

And a chance of letting others test it?

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:22 pm

Sure thing, except I still don't have the model in game
I can't get it to export.

more info to come.

Stratovarius · Post by **Stratovarius** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:10 pm

Ah, thought you did with the CSV values, my bad

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:49 pm

Stratovarius: I have values for the system if I ever get it loaded.
But for now, it's a blank ship.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:49 am

JonathanD wrote:Stratovarius: I have values for the system if I ever get it loaded.
But for now, it's a blank ship.

I was thinking that your rear turret placement was correct - in the thick of a fight you often don't have the luxury of ordering the Turret AI to shoot (or not shoot) at the ship you're locked on. Better to let it choose it's own targets using Ctrl-W.

But if the Turret is at the top rear end of the ship, it may shift it's concentration away from protecting that vulnerable end and fire at the side/front target instead.

On the same thread of thought, I've decided to keep the Orion rear turret where it is and just add the chin turret. Hopefully with the info I got from Chuck I'll have better luck doing that this time.

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:07 pm

Well, this thread is old... but I have an update to the ship design I tossed out earlier.

www.dhpos.com/3rdparty/csship.jpg

I'll try my hand at a texture shortly.

To recap, it's intended as a reasonably armed medium freighter. 2 turrets, one above that front hump with upper/forward coverage, giving it decent frontal coverage, and one mounted on the rear. The lower section, I picture as being detachable and replaceable as a full module, to allow for different cargos. Not sure how I'll represent this best in texture.

Not real happy with the engines but they may look better with a texture as well.

Gosshawk · Post by **Gosshawk** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:45 am

I like it, but maybe try attatching the engine directly to the hull. Maybe two on the top corners and two underneath, kinda in and X pattern. Again, great job

JonathanD · Post by **JonathanD** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:30 pm

Wouldn't make sense with hull mounted engines, especially on the lower portion, as the lower portion is supposed to be removable... At least, in textures it will be :p

Might make more sense when I texture it.

Gosshawk · Post by **Gosshawk** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:54 am

My thought was that the way the engine were podded just didnt look right in the WC universe, but maybe its just me. It makes it look like a runabout shuttle from Deep Space 9.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:44 am

Reviving this thread since I've continued with my Orion experiments.

I've modified the stock config to have a price tag of 75k, 100 ton cargo hold and a 7 second jump time (default is 10 sec). With total cash of 200+k ( after stripping the Tarsus) you can have a decently equipped Orion with :

Reactor 3 & Shield 3
dual Ion guns
Tungsten armor and hull
B&S Tripwire radar (Intermediate)
Jump drive and afterburner
etc.

Should be interesting to see how this ship fares when the hidden pirate base missions come up. Still not happy with the rear turret placement, will see if I can modify it later to go ceiling or floorside.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:48 am

Turns out that the 7 second jump time is more beneficial to the Orion than relocating the turret. With armor and shields, the 3 seconds less that it takes to jump gives the Orion the edge it needs to escape unscathed to the destination of your choice.

I've added a Demon to my fleet after a masterpartslist tweak that added it the available ships (this early) and let me buy it for 125k. It complements my Orion nicely, was able to outrun Tayla's jealous boyfriend and his gang and deliver the last mission's cargo to Constantinople.

Doing combat missions is still less profitable than cargo runs which is why I'm holding on to the Orion for a while. We'll see if the Demon campaigns will still force me to get a Centurion. Would love to surprise thos raiders with a Gothri but that wouldn't be canon would it ?

zeo1234 · Post by **zeo1234** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:48 am

Hey z30, have you ever had this happen to you?

I was trying to tractor a ship with an Orion, just to see if I could slow it down, near a jump gate and when the ship jumped it took me with it.

Could be a handy trick if you ever get caught in a system with no bases and a damaged jump drive.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:31 am

zeo1234 wrote:Hey z30, have you ever had this happen to you?

I was trying to tractor a ship with an Orion, just to see if I could slow it down, near a jump gate and when the ship jumped it took me with it.

Could be a handy trick if you ever get caught in a system with no bases and a damaged jump drive.

No, that's amazing! It looks like the tractor thing is two way

Are the new variants working out for you? Even the stock Orion should be tougher now with overlayed plasteel & tungsten plus the faster regenerating shields.

zeo1234 · Post by **zeo1234** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:58 am

Yes, the Orion is much easier to fly mission with now though I'm still trying to decide which of the varients I like better, so hard to decide.

I'm not sure though if it was the tractor beam that made the jump possible, I was in close proximity to the ship and in the actual jump gate when it happened. I'll have to try it again later without the tractor to see if it happens again.

If it does I'll try it with a ship that doesn't have a jump drive to see if I'm really being dragged through or if my drive is being auto activated.

Edit: Okay, it seems it won't work without a working jump drive and it basically is an auto activation of your own jump drive. Tractor beam not required to trigger it, just be within the jump gate when the other ship jumps and it will trigger your own jump.

Though I'm still not 100% sure, when I did it the first time it was instantaneous but each time I tried after it was a secondary event. Course the ship I did it the first time I had 4 tractor beams with auto targetting and the ship I tested with only had 2.

zeo1234 · Post by **zeo1234** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:48 am

Okay, I'm pretty sure now that being inside the jump gate when another ship jumps can auto trigger your own jump drive and you can't actually hitch a ride.

But maybe whoever is working on the game coding would consider making it possible to hitch a ride on another ship's jump?

Would come in handy if you ever get stranded with a damaged jump drive or run out of jump fuel.

Anyway, each of the Orion alternate models seem to have there own strength and weaknesses. The 7 second jump being the best feature of the bunch but you only get that with the OrionMk2. The only annoying thing is when near other ships during a battle seems to have a high incident of friendly fire which causes all ships to want to attack me.

Higher than other ships I've tried. Though probably due to the Drathi's constant dodge and weaving causing the auto targetting of the turrets to fire wildly.

Doesn't happen as much when targetting Talons.

Can't wait till the Parallel World Beta Patch for 1.1 is out so I can try out those new shield types.

z30 · Post by **z30** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:14 am

zeo1234 wrote:Okay, I'm pretty sure now that being inside the jump gate when another ship jumps can auto trigger your own jump drive and you can't actually hitch a ride.

But maybe whoever is working on the game coding would consider making it possible to hitch a ride on another ship's jump?

Spirit would probably know - this is something they probably tackled or discussed during the development of WCU.

zeo1234 wrote:

Anyway, each of the Orion alternate models seem to have there own strength and weaknesses. The 7 second jump being the best feature of the bunch but you only get that with the OrionMk2. The only annoying thing is when near other ships during a battle seems to have a high incident of friendly fire which causes all ships to want to attack me.

Higher than other ships I've tried. Though probably due to the Drathi's constant dodge and weaving causing the auto targetting of the turrets to fire wildly.

Doesn't happen as much when targetting Talons.

Can't wait till the Parallel World Beta Patch for 1.1 is out so I can try out those new shield types.

The other Orions will have the same 7 second jump cycle in the impending patch no worries.

I've always had problems with Dralthi's - you generally have to turn the turrets off when friendlies are around.