Luddites=headaches

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 11:16 am

I'm attempting to prepare the new luddite model for insertion into the game. Hellcatv gave me the obj file and I imported it into wings just fine, and aligned it to the +z axis without much trouble.

I've never done this before, though, so the first thing I did (now I'm pretty sure this was wrong) was export back to obj and use mesher to convert it to a bxfm. After leafing through the wiki and some threads here, I came to the conclusion that I actually needed to be exporting to the xmesh format (and mesher didn't seem to be able to convert from obj to xmesh). I also encountered pontiac's Xmesh plugin for wings, which I installed.

When I tried to export the wings model as an Xmesh, I got some weird error which looks similar to the one that Major was reporting in this thread. In there, it seems that it was remedied by re-mapping or re-importing a texture or something, but I can't figure out how to do it myself.

I have no experience with texturing in wings, so if anyone can point me in the right direction it would be most appreciated. Thanks!

Post by **hellcatv** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 pm

bfxm is the format to export to if you want it in game these days

the mesher.exe lets you convert to bfxm and then from bfxm to xmesh if you so desire

mesher myfile.obj myfile.bfxm obc
mesher myfile.bfxm myfile.xmesh bxc

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:48 pm

Oh, so I was doing it right the first time? (Obj to wings, re-orient the mesh, wings to obj, obj to bfxm)

Also, how should I go about placing engines and weapon mounts?
On that note, what are the purposes of the Xmesh and Xunit formats? It is easier to edit them by hand or something? I remember seeing snippets of it that look like XML or some markup language as opposed to the gibberish that is bfxm.

Post by **hellcatv** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:41 pm

xunit was the old way to place weapons
you can potentially use wings3d to place the weapons...then look at the xunit file and copy them into the excel spreadsheet file.
units/units.csv is an excel spreadsheet...
you have to change the weapons coordinates on the redeemer.blank redeemer and redeemer.template entries (rows) at worst if you just give me the coordinates I'm sure I'll be able to do something useful...

same goes for Engines (which are listed in the lights column)

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:03 am

Progress update: Here's a quick snap I took of an earlier attempt to create some mounts with pontiac's plug-in.

Peteyg reccomended a simpler method, which I think i'm going to use. Just select the vertex where you want the mount to be and copy down the coords, which can be placed directly in units.csv. If all goes well, I'll have it working in-game by the end of the week.

etheral walker · Post by **etheral walker** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:34 am

I designed it to have weapons on the end of wings. Basically I'm working on a turrets/weapons pack (all VWEP compliant), and there is some weapons for this one. So I suggest you to put the weapons mount points on the end of the wings, in case of need i can send you the weapons only for this one as soon as I finish them

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:58 am

Evidently, the redeemer has three weapon mounts, two swarmers, and two missile mounts.

I was going to try one nose mount and two on the wingtips. The mounts you see here are for the swarmers, and the missiles will probably be mounted near the middle of the wing.

I also saw that picture you made of the engine "pontoons", i.e. an engine on the end of each wing. However, the current model doesn't seem to have these, so the plan is to place the engine between the two aft fins for the time being.

etheral walker · Post by **etheral walker** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:06 pm

I will try to finish it before the end of the week end, could you pm me your mail adress, Halleck?

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:11 pm

Sure. Check your PM box.

All right, Peteyg's method works fine for getting the coordinates.

For some reason it isn't as easy to modify missions in the CVS as it was in 0.4.2. The file format seems to be the same, and I went ahead and changed explore_universe.mission to give myself a redeemer. I select explore_universe.mission in the launcher screen, click "new pilot"- whoope, an aelar.

Looks like the game is reading an old savegame file even though i told it to start a new one.
I'm running with a vegastrike.exe that I compiled myself, so that could be the problem. I'll grab the CVS executable if someone's commited a binary with the new screenshot key (+no brackets) code.

I suppose I can just buy a luddite, but I'm not sure where to go (or how to get there). Maybe the best solution is to just figure out how to edit my savegame.

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:32 pm

Update: I've got all my mount coordinates! Yay.

Code: Select all

Vertex	Name					Coords

388	  Nose Apex Location: 				 -0.0 	 -0.771629 8.922605
389	  Alternate Nose Mount (beneath apex) :	-0.0 	 -1.067629 8.678235
297	  Approx. Cockpit Location		-0.0  	  0.54144  3.751725
1451*	Port Swarmer Mount			 2.37195 -0.52576  0.614222
1452*	Starboard Swarmer Mount			-2.37195 -0.52576  0.614222
1456*	Temporary Engine (between aft fins)	-0.0	 -0.533517 -4.4708
451	  Port Gun Mount				 5.89317 -0.622909 -4.504155
409	  Starboard Gun Mount			-5.89317 -0.622909 -4.504155
1465*	Port Missile Mount			 3.397073-0.889391 -2.732708
1460*	Starboard Missile Mount			-3.397073-0.889391 -2.732708

*Added vertex

What's left to do:
1. Drop them into units.csv
2. Test in-game. (Need help here, see above post)
3. Tweak as needed.

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:28 pm

Here's what I see in the save game file:
Tons of information about squadron status and location, faction relations, missions, and news reports.

All I need to know is how to edit my fleet! I didn't find anything pertaining to "shlimazel" squadron, which is the player's as far as I remember. (Appropriately named, I might add.)

EDIT: Never mind, there it is right at the top. D'oh.

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:50 pm

Update: Woohoooo!

Click for larger version.

Now just gotta get the textures on, and the mounts into the csv.

EDIT: Textures are on. It isn't properly aligned, though. Here's a screenshot:

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:02 pm

Update: I'm pleased to report the model is now properly textured. Check it out!

It still needs the new weapon mount locations added into the csv (I haven't had time yet).

Post by **hellcatv** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:46 am

you rock

this will give the luddites the edge they need....
to still blow into oblivion--but at least look good doing so

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:21 pm

Hehe.. you know, they look pretty fierce now, Kinda F-16ish.

As for my progress, got all the redeemer.template mounts fitted. I suppose this is a temporary configuration if Ethereal is going to be adding those new engine things soon.

New screenshots posted:

Mounts fitted. The fighter itself is probably a bit too big, could stand some scaling down. Hopefully I'll be able to do a side-by-side comparison with the osprey model.

A cool shot of the redeemer docking.

Also, it's a bit too shiny since it has no specularity map at the moment, but PeteyG has said he'll try to whip one up. I'd say the redeemer is well on its way to being ship shape!

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:50 am

Update- Pulled the new redeemer up next to the old osprey- I'd say its a tad bit larger.

Anyway, I've fiddled with the scaling a bit, and 2 seems to be a good value ( as opposed to 8 ).
Here's a nice comparison shot.

I've also added a temporary engine position.

Post by **jackS** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:42 am

for future reference on scaling:

running

mesher -dims <name of bfxmfile>

will give the min x,y,z and max x,y,z coordinates of the model, scaled by the model's internal scaling variables, in meters.

the unit's scaling var then multiplies this as one would expect. Thus you can know exactly how wide, tall, and long the model is... although the box approximation is poor for most other possible calculations

... remind me to put this option in the usage text for mesher...

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:51 am

How handy!

Update- Check the spec!

PeteyG gave me some pointers on how to do my own specularity map, and here it is (a hack job at the moment, but it works). Basically, this means that the ship is no longer a gigantic mirror. Check the CVS sometime tomorrow, the new model should be in!

Phew.

Post by **hellcatv** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:52 am

and it's in

Halleck · Post by **Halleck** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:22 am

Awesome! Updating...

Heh, you didn't have to put luddites1PPl-alt.xcf in there. That's just my working copy of the specularity map for the GIMP.
What needs to be in there is redeemerPPL.jpg, that is the specularity map reffered to in the bxfm file. redeemerPPL1.jpg is just a shinier version.

Also, i saw this in BFXMmake:
"redeemer.bfxm":"osprey.xmesh"
Not sure what it means, but redeemer.xmesh is the current one!

Post by **hellcatv** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:39 am

fixed

Post by **jackS** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:00 pm

Halleck wrote: Also, i saw this in BFXMmake:
"redeemer.bfxm":"osprey.xmesh"
Not sure what it means, but redeemer.xmesh is the current one!

the format for BFXMmake files is as follows:

"<output1.BFXM>":"<source1.xmesh>","<source2.xmesh>",...,"<sourceN.xmesh>"
"<output2.BFXM>":...
...

it's line oriented, one output file per line. Note that only top level xmeshes need to be specified. LODs will be automatically included upon parsing the top level xmeshes.

an example:

"clydesdale.bfxm":"cruiserhi1.xmesh","cruiserhi2.xmesh","cruiserhi3.xmesh","cruiserhiglow.xmesh"
"clydesdale_shields.bfxm":"csh.xmesh"

Post by **hellcatv** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:21 am

We should really get rid of them though
I think they've outlived their usefulness now that we can do massive processing on bfxm files and now that they could become out of sync

it would save massive ammts of space in the CVS repository as well

what say you folks

Post by **dandandaman** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:01 am

hellcatv wrote:what say you folks

I agree, but I think we might want to wait until CJL has a working bfxm importer...

But apart from that, this is what I've been saying for months

Dan.a

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:07 am

Get rid of the bfxmmake files, and any lingering xmesh files. If we need to get at the xmesh, we can just run mesher, do our modifications, then rebfxm them.

That's a lot better than praying that the xmesh files and bfxm files are in sync.

So... get rid of them!!