great small ships?

[prolog]

Hi, this is my first post. Back in the mid to late 90s, I played a ton of space-y games, such as Star Control 2 (my favourite), Frontier: Elite 2, and others. Someone on the Ur-Quan Masters forum (UQM is a remake of SC2 using the 3DO source) posted about possibly adding Star Control 2 ships, races, etc., to Vega Strike. So I downloaded the game, as it looked interesting, and gave it a try.

That was a few days ago.

Many, many hours of gameplay later, I'm near Arcturus, with a Llama, a Plowshare (is their cargo capacity really supposed to be that incredible?!), and a few hundred thousand credits.

Here's the thing: I really like Vega-Strike combat. Because I've got a few hundred thousand credits, I figure I could probably get a pretty decent fighter or interceptor and fill it up with all sorts of good equipment. But the cool thing about vega strike (so many ships!) is also the disadvantage: I have no idea which are really good, and which are awful.

My basic gameplay style is to go to new systems, and take up bounty/patrol missions. I enjoyed trading in the early game, but being a coffee baron is only fun for so long. And while my Llama is in good shape right now - autotracking ion beams, tons of hull and shields, etc - I'd like more of a dedicated attack ship. So what ships work best for the recon/elimination type missions in the earlier game?

Also, is there a command that lets me review messages I've been sent recently while in space?

[klauss]

Also, is there a command that lets me review messages I've been sent recently while in space?

Page Up will scroll up all MFDs, until it starts scrolling up the message log. Page Down will scroll down the log, until it starts scrolling down the MFDs. Remember to go back to "neutral scrolling" (that is, scroll back to where you started), or you'll see some strange effects (your MFDs won't show all the info, because they remain scrolled down).

[CoffeeBot]

My understanding is that you'll need a few million credits before you can outfit a decent assault craft. As for acutal ships, I couldn't tell you. I just run cargo, mainly.

[Kerrysl]

Pacifier and then Goddard are good recon/patrol ships. This is especially true once you get your hands on a Cloaking device. The Pacifier is about 400,000 credits if memory serves me and the Goddard at about 1.8 million credits (again from memory - read that as I'm probably wrong).

I really enjoyed flying the Pacifier and took out my first Mule with it, once I had a cloak. A good rule of thumb is to have at least double the number of credits as the price of a ship, so that you can bring it up to good standard before taking it into battle.

This is my battle style. Fly in cloaked until within gun range (4000 meters). De-cloak and give it to them with my four auto-tracking guns. If need be, give them a F&F missile as well but usually not necessary. After about 10 seconds. Cloak and re-position for another attack on the same ship if they still exist or my next target if I succeeded in destroying the first. Finally cloak and continue my mission. It has to be about the safest form of combat, with all the odds in my favour.

Even with lots of enemy about, they can't do too much damage in only a few seconds if I have good shields and armour. I have cleaned out a system of about 20 plowshares using the above technique.

[prolog]

So where does one go about getting a cloaking device? I'm low on credits at the moment, having bought and kitted out a Pacifier with a fair amount of stuff (though I'd like more autotrackers than the one I currently have). I'm really enjoying doing the explore/fly patrols and bounty/sell wine on the side gig I've currently got going. I find my ship limit at the moment is three to four light (Redeemer, etc) ships in combat, and I wouldn't mind being able to blink in and out of cloak.

[loki1950]

I had luck at Stuurm Resceach stations they can be hard to find in general though for balance reasons, you can edit your save game file

Enjoy the Choice
ps try a serch of the fourums for cloaking

[Wisq]

If you want to get a cloaking device "officially", you can also edit the units.csv file, but make a backup. What you're looking for is a place that has them, like research stations.

Search for "upgrades/Experimental". Notice that within the {}s, there are a bunch of numbers. The second to last number should be negative. Set it to 50 or so.

Launch VS. Visit the unit whose cargo you edited (like a research station). You should see some 50 cloaking devices for sale.

You can change it back after if you like, or just keep it that way and know that you can always get cloaking devices from that unit.

[prolog]

I'll just keep an eye out, then - I'm really against editing savegames, coming from a roguelike background.

So, a question: is there a purpose to most of the light fighters out there? I'm talking about ships like the Robin, Hyena, Ancestor, etc. It seems that, generally, you're better off just spending the money you'd spend on those ships upgrading the llama's hull and shields.

[CoffeeBot]

So, a question: is there a purpose to most of the light fighters out there? I'm talking about ships like the Robin, Hyena, Ancestor, etc. It seems that, generally, you're better off just spending the money you'd spend on those ships upgrading the llama's hull and shields.

I've wondered the same thing, myself. And not just in VS, but in nearly every other game out there. Hopefully, with the rebalancing, the speed and agility offered by the lighter ships will help them stay alive against their heavier cousins.

I've always been a fan of fast, and agile ships, but they never stand a chance against the more popular ships because of the heavier weapons and shielding so I'm forced into one of those just to survive. Survival shouldn't be dependent on having equivalent armor and weapons -- sure, it's probably suicide going head-to-head, but it shouldn't be instant suicide, especially if I can easily stay on their six (or blindspot, depending on turret placement).

[prolog]

In some games, there really is a difference, but there doesn't seem to be much in VS. I'd like it if once a light ship got outside a larger ship's field of view, it would be difficult to take it out. A couple of light ships on the 6 of a medium ship should be able to do some pretty serious damage.

Like you, I'd love to be able to play VS in a tricked-out light fighter.

[CoffeeBot]

I've always been a fan of the "sleeper ship" approach -- a dumpy little ship packing weapons that no sane person would attach to them (a Dodo with disruptors and torpedos, for example). Something that you would never ever use for combat, but if backed into a corner, could easly rip someone apart given the right opportunity.

Unfortunately, there's always this "light weapons only" thing that never makes any sense. Sure, for the size of the ship, and it's intended purpose, light weapons are the best tactical choice. But I'm not using it for it's intended purpose, and I don't see any physical reason why I can't mount massive guns on the outside -- I've got a fusion welder and some time. The ship has extra cargo space I can use to house the reactor needed to power them, too. Is it safe? Probably not. Will it require a lot of jury-rigging that could break? Probably so. Will a system failure cause the aft hull to sublimate? Definitely. But I still want it, because I only need one clean shot to slag my aggressor.

I am the Mouse that Roared.

[Wisq]

Perhaps the game could let you bolt guns to the outside of your ship... with the caveat that a) they can't autotrack (neither the moving parts nor the grip to swivel around), b) you can't land on planets (aerodynamics are screwed, gun flies off, probably takes ship with it), and c) any shot that goes through your shields and hits the gun area has a high chance of blowing the gun and doing substantial damage to your ship and its systems -- possibly blowing you up on the spot.

Other factors could come into play, too. Like lasers would be prone to overheating since they lack the appropriate cooling equipment, while mass drivers would be prone to ripping off.

If you stack up the disadvantages enough, it may be possible to include this without being terribly unbalancing.

[CoffeeBot]

@wisq: I like those ideas -- pretty much what I was thinking. But, in reading your reply, I began to wonder about someone who dumps a massive amount of time and money into these types of modifications. The end result would be mount-points and weapon systems that are just as good as those of ships originally intended for that scale of weaponry. Sure, they would be prone to failure, because the ship is in an unnatural state, but far less likely. The aerodynamics issue is one I hadn't thought of, and might actually be applicable, regardless of the quality of modifications.

And, of course, some of these modifications would be illegal (the really dangerous ones), if not because of the scale of the weapons, so much as the danger imposed by them. You're endangering everyone else when you dock, so why wouldn't you be arrested for it?

I would think this is the kind of stuff pirates would be doing -- manage to blast a militia or confed fighter, and take the scrap back to their base and have some mechanics mount them on their Hyenas.

[Silverain]

You could implement something like this via upgrade sizing and ship storage capacity. We could lose the light/medium/heavy/special assignments and base everything on size (size is an abstract single figure representing weight/mass, bulk size and difficulty of fitting a weapon). Then, its just the nature/size of the weapon itself as opposed to the ship (e.g. a capship beam weapon on a franklin? No, but a heavy something or other could work).

Variant:
Keep the light/medium/heavy/special designations, but these are multipliers of sizing (to represent difficulty of mounting a non-standard weapon to a mounting).

A light mount can fit in any category and the size "cost" remains at x1.

A medium mount can fit in medium or above, but to fit in a light mount requires cost x 1.5

A heavy weapon to heavy/special mount is x1, to medium is x1.5 and light is x2.0.

A special weapon (special by nature) fits special mount at x1, but all other mounts x3.0.

And/or,
light/medium/heavy to special mount always requires x2.0 cost (because the mounting is 'special'.

So, its the idea you could possibly fit a weapon to a smaller ship/gun mount, but at a cost to maintain the ship's statistical performance.

[CoffeeBot]

I like the theory, Silverain, but simply making something cost-prohibitive isn't enough. It's not that the weapon mounting schemes didn't make sense (smaller ship = smaller reactor/smaller mount points .: smaller weapons) it's just that if I wanted to mount larger, potentially illegal weapons on my ship, regardless of cost and chance of personal harm, I couldn't.

And, why couldn't a smaller vessel mount a capital ship beam weapon in it's cargo hold? If it's physically big enough to store the weapon in it's hold, along with a reactor to power it, why not? Obviously there will be some SERIOUS complications, and the ship will probably lose a great deal of mobility, if not become completely unusable after firing it once. But, it's still feasible.

This is one of those things that could be tied in with a few other threads around here, like:
*Modifications being based on physical space/size/stress levels so anythign was technically possible, but it might not work, or simply kill you in the process
*Ship and weapons availability based on ownership of certain licenses and faction rank
*Technical/Mechanical aptitude of the person installing the equipment.

I don't think anyone's against the weapon ratings in and of themselves, nor the fact that ships are rated for different levels of reactors and weapons (Okay, well, I'm pretty sure there's at least one person..but they're not part of this discussion yet ). It's a matter of imposed limitations when the only limits should be simple physics.

Small sidetrack --
In talking about all of these potential modifications, and high-quality work and the lengthy time to do it, why doesn't the game reflect any of these things? Even the regular installation of weapons and ship upgrades -- they're instantaneous. Maybe swapping out guns, and reloading ammunition would take under 30 minutes, perhaps even sensor arrays and shield generators...but adding a second hull? That should take a while. Repairing ship systems should also take some time, too. I would think you'd drop your ship off at the shop, order your repairs, and go off and wait for an email to come back saying the work is done. If you've got another ship, fly a mission or two while you wait. Maybe this sort of thing is too much realism, and I know I'd get annoyed if I had to leave the game sit for a while whilst work is being done on my ship. It's a game, and I do enough waiting in the real world. This is probably a bad idea, but, like always, I'll throw it out for the wolves.

[XV-745]

Some interesting ideas here, though I think the thread has officially gotten OT.

Regarding the idea of good, small ships - I'm interested too. I tried, last night, to outfit a Progeny (man, they are so fun to fly - zippy!) with a tractor beam and good shields. I was thinking, if I transferred my Llama's cloak, I could use the progeny as tiny, super-fast specialty ship for rescue missions. However, even with the cargo hold completely empty (10 out of 10 free) my poor Andolian rescuee kept bouncing off my hull. Anyone know how much cargo space is needed for a rescued pilot?

BTW, I didn't actually transfer the cloak to the Progeny, since I was just testing. For future reference, you should not fly the Progeny without a cloak if there are going to be Aera forces in the system - OUCH!

The Goddard, which is a great ship, is not really small by any measure. The Pacifier is really a medium ship. So, has anyone had any luck using a small ship for any specialized purpose (rescue missions, contraband smuggling, cloaked assassin ship, etc.)??

Also, regarding the cloaking device. If you don't want to edit your game files, another method that works is to land at a location that can carry cloaks (research base, some cap ships, etc.) and then save and quit the game (if they don't have a cloak). Fire it up again and load your game. Any cloaks now? No? Quit out of VS and reload again. Any cloaks now? It worked for me after three quit/reload cycles. Your results may vary.

I mentioned this method in a post on another thread. Like I said there, this is not smooth gameplay but it's not exactly cheating either. I consider it the roleplay equivalent of stubbornly spending the night (one per reload) at the base until somebody either delivers a cloak or admits that they really have one. Seems realistic enough for me... I just wish there was a "spend the night" button that would regenerate base/planet cargo so I didn't have to quit/reload do it.

This brings to mind the whole issue of time (and how it's not really dealt with in VS). This belongs in another thread so I'll leave it for now...

XV

[CoffeeBot]

So, has anyone had any luck using a small ship for any specialized purpose (rescue missions, contraband smuggling, cloaked assassin ship, etc.)??

I seem to recall someone saying something about the milspec schroedinger coming with a cloak, and enough cargo space for contraband runs. They sang it's praises for this purpose.

[XV-745]

I seem to recall someone saying something about the milspec schroedinger coming with a cloak, and enough cargo space for contraband runs. They sang it's praises for this purpose.

Yeah, I remember that now. That's right, you need to get the tractor mount enhancement so you can mount a tractor beam on it. You end up with a ship with no armaments, but it's fast, invisible, and very cool looking.

But, I just love how fast the Progeny is... (Schroedinger has a respectible fore accel of 18.8 gravs, but the Prog has 30.4 gravs!!). Hmm, if I get the cargo hold expansion for the Progeny it might work (Schroedinger has 15 cargo, standard, Progeny is 16 with the upgrade). So, maybe you need 15 for a rescue mission. I'll check and report back.

The Gawain might be a good compromise, too. It's got room for a few guns, 30 m^3 of cargo space - enough maybe for a rescue mission and a little contraband, specialty wine, or space salvage, and it's 22.7 gravs of accel will help when you're trying to beat the Aera to your ejected pilot...

XV

[XV-745]

Hmmm... can't seem to add the cargo expansion mod to my Progeny (even a .blank). Is this a bug or a feature?