We need help with spec values

[hellcatv]

For people with the new 0.4.3 linux release or the CVS windows version the biggest Problem so far is the spec variables
in the "physics" section of the config the following variables are used... they do not seem to be ideal for *fast* travel through the system...it takes too much real time without time compression--which has its own issues... does anyone have some suggestions about better valuess (paste these into vegastrike.config under the physics section and then change them...)

<var name="warprampuptime" value="10"/> <!-- in seconds -->
<var name="warprampdowntime" value="0.5"/> <!-- seconds -->
<var name="warpcruisemult" value="5000"/>
<var name="warpregion0" value="5000"/> <!-- deadzone modifier meters -->
<var name="warpMaxEfVel" value="2960881320"/>
<var name="warpregion1" value="5000000"/> <!-- curve fit parameter for warpcruisemult, in meters -->
<var name="warpMultiplierMax" value="300000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMin" value="9.86960440109"/>

[Space Pirate]

I think that the SPEC multiplier minimum should be raised from 9 to something higher. It's kind of painful to keep on waiting until the speed finally ramps up... possibly you could make SPEC get up to speed by making it less sensitive to gravity wells...

Well for me, SPEC is fast enough (CVS Version), but then again I love enjoying the scenery, etc. If you are in a hurry to get away from a pirate attack, it can be really slow. The only real problem is if you are near the sun! The problem is, sometimes I have to go close to the sun because the ship I have to go to for a cargo mission or something is there.

P.S. What?? There's a 0.4.3 linux release? Why isn't this in the news? When did it come out???

[JungleJim]

In 0.4.2 wasn't the min SPEC value ~31? Maybe that should be used.

As Space Pirate said, "what's the config variable that controls gravity well sensitivity?"

[hellcatv]

the point was that you could fly at 1 spec for less distance...
and also be attacked in this time

if you go at 9 you're immune to attack basically (AI has to turn spec on to chase you, can't fire with spec on)

[fizze]

yeah I agree on the no spec limit.

i donno, maybe there could be something like a SPEC-map ? or gravity based map for the system to somehow plot paths where the gravity well is steep ?

it just needs to be a 1D height map, based on the current course/pitch/yaw, i think.


well "just" hr hr.......

ok, I'll fiddle with it.
i hope this also works using the regular 0.4.3 build ?


also: shields shouldnt just drop when engaging SPEC. it sohuld be based on the multiplier & speed, as the former nav-speed mode.

I also think that, when entering spec the color pallette and view should drastically change.
so as one should onle be able to see "gravity" wells & sources.
this would ease up navigation in spec, too.

[IxianMace]

the point was that you could fly at 1 spec for less distance...
and also be attacked in this time

if you go at 9 you're immune to attack basically (AI has to turn spec on to chase you, can't fire with spec on)

You can still run away from attacks without the aid of SPEC by toggling flight mode and letting your ship accelerate up to enormous speeds. You just can't run away from missile attacks as effectively anymore, and have to out turn the missile instead of simply putting it on your six and engaging the afterburners. Which I think is good, as long as you aren't fired on from close range when it's almost too late to react.

[eddit]

I think that the current settings in 0.4.3 with the minimum spec speed should be raised. Currently when you're approaching a planet for docking spec drops to 1 as you approach, taking forever to dock.

My current settings are
<var name="warprampuptime" value="10"/>
<var name="warprampdowntime" value="0.5"/>
<var name="warpcruisemult" value="5000"/>
<var name="warpregion0" value="100"/>
<var name="warpcurvedegree" value="1.25"/>
<var name="warpMaxEfVel" value="9301883004"/>
<var name="warpregion1" value="5000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMax" value="300000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMin" value="15"/>
<var name="warpbleed" value="50"/>
<var name="minwarpeffectsize" value="100"/>

If you're worried about people using SPEC to jump from combat, perhaps you could increase the warprampuptime to a larger value (say perhaps 30 sec). Then, when you engage SPEC, your shields go down and you're left slowly building up speed while someone pours ammo at you while you can't shoot back!

PS: I think it's good that shields immediately drop - easily explained by incompatibility in gravitational fields generated by SPEC and Shield generator (I assume that the shield is a gravitational field as it stops mass that's lobbed at you)

[Silverain]

If you're worried about people using SPEC to jump from combat, perhaps you could increase the warprampuptime to a larger value (say perhaps 30 sec). Then, when you engage SPEC, your shields go down and you're left slowly building up speed while someone pours ammo at you while you can't shoot back!

PS: I think it's good that shields immediately drop - easily explained by incompatibility in gravitational fields generated by SPEC and Shield generator (I assume that the shield is a gravitational field as it stops mass that's lobbed at you)

Now that's an interesting take.

[jackS]

PS: I think it's good that shields immediately drop - easily explained by incompatibility in gravitational fields generated by SPEC and Shield generator (I assume that the shield is a gravitational field as it stops mass that's lobbed at you)

Not quite the exact description, but the correct principle Exclusive applications of a similar base technology.

[fizze]

full ack

bigger warprampuptime would be greatly appreciated.
also, more "inertia" effects when slowing down, aka bigger warprampdowntime, too.

[qwerky]

Here are the values for the SPEC drive that I am using:

<var name="warprampuptime" value="10"/>
<var name="warprampdowntime" value="2"/>
<var name="warpcruisemult" value="20000"/>
<var name="warpregion0" value="1"/>
<var name="warpcurvedegree" value="0.85"/>
<var name="warpMaxEfVel" value="9301883004"/>
<var name="warpregion1" value="5000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMax" value="300000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMin" value="1"/>

These values allow you to use the SPEC drive when close to an object and they also speed up the time it takes to get a high multiplier.

[Guest]

My SPEC Value

<var name="warprampuptime" value="30"/> <!-- in seconds -->
<var name="warprampdowntime" value="0.5"/>
<var name="warpcruisemult" value="45000"/>
<var name="warpregion0" value="100"/>
<var name="warpcurvedegree" value="1.25"/>
<var name="warpMaxEfVel" value="9301883004"/>
<var name="warpregion1" value="5000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMax" value="300000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMin" value="15"/>
<var name="warpbleed" value="50"/>
<var name="minwarpeffectsize" value="100"/>

use ASAP & SPEC. without time compression, but agreeable.

[fizze]

<var name="warprampuptime" value="30"/> <!-- in seconds -->
<var name="warprampdowntime" value="0.5"/>
<var name="warpcruisemult" value="45000"/>
<var name="warpregion0" value="100"/>
<var name="warpcurvedegree" value="1.25"/>
<var name="warpMaxEfVel" value="93300304"/>
<var name="warpregion1" value="5000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMax" value="300000000"/>
<var name="warpMultiplierMin" value="15"/>
<var name="warpbleed" value="50"/>
<var name="minwarpeffectsize" value="100"/>


these are mine.quite similiar to some postet values
but the max ef velocity is reduced.
makes acceleration nicer.
i like it

[jackS]

note that in the above, you've set max effective velocity below C

[fizze]

i know.
Id like to get a longer ramp-down time, and with effective high speeds this is almost totally unusuable.

it takes me now something like 15-30 secs to travel 10ls. I think thats ok. otherwise one's just instantly there, plus, you can navigate some at that speed.

btw with these values, I found a nifty bug on 0.4.3:
you can misuse the spec by engaging and disengaging constantly, the multiplier will hop to the min value and slow down again. so even if u are really close to a gravity well, you can do tiny "jumps".
the AI also happily exploits this, making those values no real fun during combat.

btw what exactly is the ramp up time ? the time it takes until max velocity is reached ? I thought thats more like the time it takes for spec to kick in ?

[Guest]

Considering that SPEC multiplies your set speed by huge numbers, I've found it to be at it's most effective by toggling into cruise mode, setting speed to around 1000, then engaging SPEC.
The only SPEC value I changed was this one:

<var name="warprampuptime" value="3"/> <!-- in seconds -->

Time compression, my butt. Try setting cruise mode speed to the max and turning on SPEC. It'll be a miracle if you don't crash or overshoot by a billion K.

[Guest]

I have to agree with some of the previous posters that what slows you down is the effect of the gravity wells. Pretty much everything you do in the game takes place near a gravity well.

Only way I can see around that is increasing the warp min. and/or reducing the effect of gravity wells. Personally I depend on the slowdown effect of gravity wells to help keep me from overshooting my target so leaves boosting the warp min.

As a balancer would it be possible to add a "wind up time" in addition to what you have now? You hit SPEC and your shields drop but no velocity increase for say 10 seconds at least. Rationale could be system coming online, power buildup,nav computer number crunching, etc... That way you would be able to boost the warp min and still have a "sitting duck" period to keep it from being used as instant out in combat. This would also the mitigate the AI stutter warping abuse.

[LCJr]

OK finally registered.

I have to agree with some of the previous posters that what slows you down is the effect of the gravity wells. Pretty much everything you do in the game takes place near a gravity well.

Only way I can see around that is increasing the warp min. and/or reducing the effect of gravity wells. Personally I depend on the slowdown effect of gravity wells to help keep me from overshooting my target so leaves boosting the warp min.

As a balancer would it be possible to add a "wind up time" in addition to what you have now? You hit SPEC and your shields drop but no velocity increase for say 10 seconds at least. Rationale could be system coming online, power buildup,nav computer number crunching, etc... That way you would be able to boost the warp min and still have a "sitting duck" period to keep it from being used as instant out in combat. This would also the mitigate the AI stutter warping abuse.

Let me add to my previous post that if you really wanted to make sure it wasn't abused you could have activating the SPEC drop your speed to 0 using the logic the nav computer needs to do it's thing while the ship is stationary. Not sure what effect that would have on the AI though.

[pontiac]

Only way I can see around that is increasing the warp min. and/or reducing the effect of gravity wells. Personally I depend on the slowdown effect of gravity wells to help keep me from overshooting my target so leaves boosting the warp min.

Yeah, that's pretty handy, but it really depends on how far you are away from your target (1/10 degree into the wrong direction is an overshoot for sure from ~1-30 lightseconds away.)

Making the INSYSTEM nav-computer/autopilot/whatever do the work for you would help alot, but this will not be mad in the next time it hink?
It would be pretty cool.... especially if the camera automatically zooms into 3rd person view when the AP is actiavated and vice versa.

Just my 2c
Pontiac

[smbarbour]

ASAP (which was already implemented for the 0.4.3 albeit undocumented) will disable your manual controls and turn your ship towards your target while running your engines at full speed including afterburners (or overdrive for the bleeding-edge CVS folks). It is a toggle command (but without an indicator light). It is best used in my opinion sporadically (read: Do not leave it on constantly during flight) and works poorly on slow turning ships such as a mule. It does not compensate well for rotational inertia. I remapped shift-A to ASAP.

If you do use it in a ship like a mule, my best suggestion is to aim your ship as close to the target as possible and then activate ASAP. The first time I tried it with a mule I ended up orbiting the jump point I was trying to fly to.

(I also have my minimum SPEC multiplier set to 10.)

BTW Here's a tip for anyone who finds that someone is travelling near them. If you see your SPEC multiplier jumping up and down, there is a ship nearby that is creating a gravity well (all objects have gravity) and disrupting your travel. If you have remapped the arrow keys to the different thrust commands, thrust up or down to distance yourself from the nearby ship. Your multiplier should then increase normally. If you have not remapped your keys, fly up or down instead.

[klauss]

What I do in such cases is to simply go to nav mode, and fire the afterburners (or Overdrive). It will quickly distance you from the nearby ship, then get out of nav mode, and release the AB, and the speed will go back to normal.

[ideler]

Talkiing about SPEC near the sun... I actually LANDED on the sun in my Llama. I was quite surprised when I saw "unhabited planet" screen, after closing in on the sun... I could see entering corona, then the inner red "ball", and eventually the landing green square appears, and you can press D to land.

[El Bobbo]

I thought I read in a description somewhere in the manual/wiki that spec is only "supposed" to be decreased when a hostile ship is nearby. However I have found that any nearby ships cause you to drop out of spec. Is there any simple way to change this?

[loki1950]

El Bobbo are you saying that the universe has favorites or that it should the disteniction between freindly or hostile is subjective and the physics laws can not play favorites.

Enjoy the Choice

[El Bobbo]

Loki, I'm saying that the gravitational force between two non-celestial bodies is totally insignificant. Really, if it is gravity that causes you to drop out of spec, you should not be affected at all by passing ships. Maybe if you got really close to a capship...

I get that for game balance enemies need to be able to keep you from SPECing away if when attack you, but I thought maybe they were supposed to somehow be jamming your SPEC drive. As I said, I thought I read something about this somewhere, but I can't find it again so maybe I made it up.

The gravitational acceleration due to an object is proportional to mass/distance^2. I estimated that I reached SPEC 100 at about 300 km from a starfortress, which is listed in units.csv as weighing 1.3E+10 metric tons. Therefore, for a hyena, which weighs only 45 metric tons, to drop me to SPEC 100 it should have to be within about 0.2 meters, assuming SPEC is based on gravitational acceleration. Therefore I must assume that when fighters disrupt SPEC, it is due to something other than gravity.

The radial component of the curvature of spacetime also goes like mass/distance^2 for small masses (where small=not a star), and I can't think of anything else gravity related that could explain why fighters bother SPEC. It is late, and I am tired, so I may be missing something here, but all my intuition about physics tells me it is rediculous that anything could be affected by the gravitational force from something as small as a spaceship.