unwitnessed kilrathi capships:

Discuss the Wing Commander Series and find the latest information on the Wing Commander Universe privateer mod as well as the standalone mod Wasteland Incident project.
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chuck_starchaser
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Shissui wrote:
chuck_starchaser wrote:So, I'm not sure if this is what Shissui had in mind
Close enough for the amount of detail that you can pack in a message of that length.
I said "in a nutshell". Anyways, did you read my previous post? I said there I don't really know any more what's happening, because originally this was a lone, helpless carrier, but as of your second last post it seems you were implying it has cruiser/destroyer escort. And I suggested you start editing the story into the wiki, so that we can all be on the same page. I got it started for you:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/ ... 634.2F2635
There are differences between your vision & mine, but not anything that we cannot beat to death before the scenarios & the models are finished.
Uhh... Well, it's your story not mine; and the ships should suit the story. But if I'm told one story but in your mind the story has changed completely but you never tell me about it, obviously I'm going to make the wrong ships for you. So, what IS the story? Is this still a lonely and helpless carrier all battered up?, or is it a whole fleet? Personally, I'd prefer the original story; I like rags to riches stories... (I'm sure there's a more applicable term...).
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Post by starlord »

great progress being made here: especially with the cutter. As a matter of fact, it kind of reminds me the "corvettes" in the renegade legion universe (especially the spiculum and the pegasus): hosting a squadron of interceptors (8) or acting as courrier, transport, etc...

Anyone knows the renegade legion by the way? It's a great universe, worth a MOD (hehehe). Better, a game exists, called renegade: battle for jacob's star: It's a great space sim (even if critics tore it down). Be sure to check it out, space sim lovers.

Oh, another thing: since april 29 2007, it has become official that I'm old: I'm 20, take me to the senior's hall :D
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Hahaha... That's old?! I'll be 49 next month, to the day... And Shissui isn't far behind me :D
Glad you like the Cutter.
A friend was asking me this am to write a full unwrapping tutorial. Of all the models I've worked on as of recent, the movie Rapier is the "most ready", so I was thinking to unwrap that one; but I think I'll try to finish the Cutter tonight and start unwrapping it for the tutorial.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Taking longer than I hoped; but the antennas had to be done right.. They are a great opportunity for providing visual cues for scale...

Image

Very little more to add...

EDIT:

Update...

Image

Not sure what to do with the underside... Was thinking of maybe some magnetic grapples for boarding ships or something; maybe a couple of tractor beams?

By the way,
Shissui wrote:
I wrote:But if this field is homogeneous and yet not infinite, then it must be bounded rather sharply. I presume the bounding is possibly controlled by something on the surface of the ships. If so, ships that it carries with it across a jump point must be fully contained.
So you do not think that the shields actually constitute a reasonable boundary?
I thought about that, but no; you can use the jump drive with the shields damaged or deactivated.

EDIT 2:
More greebles...

Image

Image
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Post by Shissui »

chuck_starchaser wrote:
Shissui wrote:
chuck_starchaser wrote:But if this field is homogeneous and yet not infinite, then it must be bounded rather sharply. I presume the bounding is possibly controlled by something on the surface of the ships. If so, ships that it carries with it across a jump point must be fully contained.
So you do not think that the shields actually constitute a reasonable boundary?
I thought about that, but no; you can use the jump drive with the shields damaged or deactivated.
That is a good argument that shields are not *necessary* to jump.
My question was -- are shields *sufficient* to constitute a jump boundary?
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

That's hard to answer categorically, as we're talking about a possible interaction between two pseudo-scientific, "magical" technologies. But I would answer "no", in a probablilistic sense; in the sense that if there's something there to define the boundaries of the anti-graviton jump "field", and it doesn't require shields to be active, it would be probably be something different from the shields. Otherwise they wouldn't put the boundary defining technology in place, but rather require the shields to be active. To build an extra layer of devices as a safety "just in case the shields are damaged", chances are, might be found an unjustified expense and complication, given that ships are rarely found in one piece with the shields inoperational.

But the real problem, the way I see it, is NOT whether these questions could be answered. The problem is causing them to be asked. When magical technologies such as "tractor beams" or "shields" or "artificial gravity" or "jump drive" are used, the last thing one wants to do is call attention to them. You throw them in, and if the player can accept them, you whistle a tune, look the other way, and try to forget them. I have a hard time even accepting the existence of "tractor beams", and as a player I don't want to think about them, because if I do, I lose my suspension of disbelief, and with it the immersion.

So, for instance, about a year ago, somebody was suggesting that landings should be assisted by tractor beams installed around the landing platform. I argued against it, precisely because, as a player, I don't want to see the number of things I experience in the game that depend on magical technologies to increase. Frankly, I'd rather see tractor beams replaced by grappling hooks that you shoot, which unroll steel or nanotube cable, personally; but that would be too much of a departure from WC traditions. So I accept tractor beams staying around; but I jump on anyone trying to expand their uses and dependencies... --kill any such idea in the bud.

And the same thing here, with jump drive and carrying ships on the outside: We don't know how this "jump field" is bounded; and there's a good reason we don't know: It doesn't exist and will never exist and it's a stupid concept from the start. But we agree to suspend our disbelief, and we get used to the idea that ships *inside* another ship jumping are carried with it across the jump. Fine. Now, what happens with ships *outside*? Well, we don't know what happens, and we don't really want to think about it, at all; --i.e.: we don't want to do something that raises the question, in the first place.

Hey, I'm in bind even as I'm talking about all this: I have landing/launching bays above and below the "wings". And the problem is I don't know what to do with regards to which way is "up" at the landing bays below the wing. The way I have them right now, up is away from the wing --i.e.: "down" in the bays below...

Image

But that raises the question of "can the artificial gravity field be created such that it changes direction in a short distance?" And I don't care what the answer is, because there IS NO answer, period; because the whole idea of artificial gravity is idiocy. The real problem is that I don't want to do something that raises the question to begin with, but I'm not sure that having up (in the picture) being "up" in both bays would look good, or that it wouldn't raise questions all the same... What to do?
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Post by snow_Cat »

^- -^ You could swap the top tank with he bottom launch bay, this would make sense from a design standpoint, no vertical travel = less wasted deck space.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

That'd be a good idea. Unfortunately the "tanks" are the engines, and if I put both under the "wing", the ship would have a tendency to "nose up", not that thrust balance is an issue acknowledged in too many WC ship models... (witness the Orion, with all the engines at the top...).

Maverick, of WCplanet.com, advised to make "up" be up for both bays, so I've been working on that, plus making the top and bottom sides of the ship less similar, just so that the player can tell more easily which side is up, on approach.

He didn't explain, btw, but doesn't need to; I know his advice is based on following WC traditions.

Quick snapshot of WIP:

Image

After I'm done with the bays, next will be the underside.

EDIT:

Topside finished:

Image
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Underside coming up...

Image

... or should I say "coming down"? :)
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Post by starlord »

Nice, very nice.

And do you propose to actually fly this ship along with various fighters in WC0?

Actually, I think of it as possible: back in 1990 and 1991, 2 microprose games called lightspeed and hyperspeed (based on a sort of "elite" concept) proposed the player to take control of a trailblazer dreadnaught while being able to fly fighters still...

I guess it's up to the fans to decide...

starchaser: I'm off topic here, but nevermind: Did you hear of renegade: battle for jacob's star and/or the renegade legion universe in general? If so, what do you think of it?
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

starlord wrote:Nice, very nice.
Thank you :D
And do you propose to actually fly this ship along with various fighters in WC0?
Absolutely. This is the ship that Chen would have bought during Priv0, and with which he goes to McAuliffe. In fact, he can't BUY this ship, legally (best he can buy is a Drayman); but after the last or one of the last missions in Priv0, the opportunity to get one comes his way. Once he's managed to upgrade it fully, that would trigger the message from Paladin, to come to McAuliffe. And after McAuliffe, he flies on this ship to go meet Shissui's stricken carrier. At least, that's how the thing is shaping up in my mind. He's still officially a privateer, but working on permanent assignment for the Confeds, and will end up spending months flying around deep in Kilrah as protector of the stricken carrier.
Actually, I think of it as possible: back in 1990 and 1991, 2 microprose games called lightspeed and hyperspeed (based on a sort of "elite" concept) proposed the player to take control of a trailblazer dreadnaught while being able to fly fighters still...
That's all done in WCU, already. Spiritplumber coded it all. You'll be able to launch off the Cutter and pilot one of your fighters, and still give orders to your Cutter, like attack my target, follow me, defend yourself, defend me, etceteras.
I guess it's up to the fans to decide...
Hey, we're fans too. ;-)
starchaser: I'm off topic here, but nevermind: Did you hear of renegade: battle for jacob's star and/or the renegade legion universe in general? If so, what do you think of it?
Well, this is your thread, so you're allowed to go off-topic. :)
But no, I never played those. I haven't played games in years; I'm only into development, really; I find most shooting games too hard to play even at the easiest settings, which bores me to death, since I don't really care to be shooting at anything in the first place; I just want the scenery and the story. The only other game I REALLY liked, besides Privateer, was Masters of Orion 2; and, before that, TFX.
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Post by starlord »

Well in that case should you have the time go give it a try, because there is a scenery and a very deep one too: The epic fight between the commonwealth and the rising threat of the terran overlord government (TOG). A truly great "novel" game. What's even better: you can get it for free on www.the-underdogs.info
The game is dos based (1994) and was crushed by wing commander 3, along with other very interesting games: Inferno from ocean (and it's predecessor: epic (as epic as it's name) which was the number 1 wing commander 1 "opponent", retribution from gremlin, star crusader from gametek, etc...

After all, we all want more epic stories to discover :roll: , don't we?
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

I'll give it try, but could you email me the game? I'm paranoid about "joining" download websites.
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Post by DualJoe »

I like the site as well and you don't have to join anything. It has some great stuff, I found some games there that I thought I'd never see again.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Found the page for renegade, but I tried many times and never got through to the download. Wants those letters and numbers off the image, but the image is always the same, even after refreshing; but the verification thing won't accept that code.
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Post by Shissui »

chuck_starchaser wrote:but the image is always the same, even after refreshing; but the verification thing won't accept that code.
Try: Clear your browser cache & reload.

That forces your browser to load from the other site rather than from local memory in case they did not write their verify page correctly.
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Post by starlord »

Try the manual anyway before the game: this alone is out of sight!

Regarding the site, you are right: sarinee did a great job, along with several modest contributors... :)
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Okay, thanks; I'll try that; --pretty clever.

Cutter's mesh is done!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Next is the unwrap; but it's gonna take some time, as I've promised someone to write a full unwrap tutorial, so I'll be capturing screenshots of the process along the way.
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Post by forlarren »

The back end of the cutter looks like a HUGE docking clamp. Its been so long I can't remember where I saw it though.

Edit: Ohh and its freaking beautiful! :D
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Hahahaha :D

Thanks, and, good memory!
You saw it probably on television, long time ago... It's the Apollo/Soyuz docking clamp
Almost perfect replica, except scaled up like 20 times.
This render I just made shows it closer:

Image

EDIT:
A better view; I'm starting to setup the materials.

Image
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Post by starlord »

Who said space race memories were long gone? :lol:
Good resemblance too, looks just like the mics I have from them.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

Space race memories? I've no idea what you're talking about, Starlord.
Anyways, I got started with the unwrapping tutorial, if not with the unwrapping itself; if people are interested to follow the progress of the unwrap, just keep checking the tutorial's progress, from time to time.
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/wiki/ ... rapBlender
If not, here's one more pic before unwrap, from the tutorial:

Image
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Post by hurleybird »

Looks awesome. The bottom walkways are kinda weird considering the lack of gravity in space though.
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Post by chuck_starchaser »

LOL, of course boardwalks in space are weird :), but why do you pick on the the ones below, and not the ones on top? I mean, if the ship is producing artificial gravity, however the heck that's supposed to work, I can't imagine the field would end abruptly at the bottom of the ship, yet proyect above the ship...
The gravitational waves Einstein theorized are rather long, so a gravitational field should extend far beyond the outside of the ship, in all directions. Possibly why WC carriers have landing strips? Where's Chris Roberts?
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