Banned from crius.net again

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:04 pm

LOAF has a lot of explaining to do. First he calls my work stupid, then I tell him not to call people names unless he wants to be called names back (which is perfectly reasonable to anyone who has made it past the third grade, I would think) then he bans me again.

I have no qualms about escalating this if he doesn't explain himself. Please see my last posts and tell me if there was anything that justified banning...

http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=18575
http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=18871
http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=18879

The way I see it, it's him who is being rude and should face disciplinary action, not me. This is abuse of power.

If his idea of dialogue is to crush dissent with physical power, I have no problems with going to Austin and breaking his nose if it's the only thing he understands. I'm going to give him a chance to be civil about it first though -- I have been.

http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=18871 I would greatly appreciate it if someone could post in that thread how his reaction makes him look stupid rather than me.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:41 pm

LOL! Haven't got the time right now to check those dialogs, but I can imagine... That place was a nest of vipers. All about politcs, about who is who, whose brown is on your nose; everybody posing, full of self-importance... about what, a game? I don't think I ever saw as much politics anywhere I worked, as I did in those forums. What intreagues me, Spirit, is why do you go there, in the first place? I wouldn't go back there if they offered me a salary

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:51 pm

I was giving some suggestions to someone who wants to make a flightsim rig.

XV-745 · Post by **XV-745** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:19 pm

spiritplumber wrote:I was giving some suggestions to someone who wants to make a flightsim rig.

The NERVE!!!

Yeah, I looked through the threads. What crawled up LOAF's butt, anyway. I mean... really!?! Did you all have a PM flameware or something? Looking at your posts - I saw nothing that should've earned you a banning. I'm sure glad I found this group before I found that one... sheesh.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:31 pm

No, although we did have a somewhat heated mail exchange after the fact. I informed him that the day I want to be unbanned from the CIC forums I'll do that myself.

no worries.

Please be extra polite to LOAF if he posts here, that'll teach him.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:23 pm

UN-FRIGGIN-BELIEVABLE! I just read the thread... A lot of words come to mind, but they'd, not only fail to capture-, would, in fact, trivialize the full reality .. He's out of his mind.

Quixotal · Post by **Quixotal** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:27 am

I have sent an email off to Loaf in regards to what I know about this matter...I see no reason from the posts for his actions and find his attitude offensive in trashing this project which has so much potential

regards. Quixotal

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:11 am

eh, i think that being on a power trip coz of owning a forum is important to his mental health

i wonder if he'll give you the details on our subsequent conversation without swiftboating it.

My request is that if he posts here we all be very nice to him, it's the best way to drive a point home.

Now he's taken to deleting some of my helpful posts in another thread apparently.

Heltarawa · Post by **Heltarawa** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:09 am

I had a good respetful talk with him(LOAF), while I do not agree with the reason for him banning you I could not save the fact that you threatened there forums and sent a few emails(not happy ones).... I tried my best to defend you but, in the end I think you locked yourself completly out of WCNEWS. The best I can see would be a written apology from both sides saying each was in the wrong for different things. Not only LOAF but Reid as well, I talked to them both for a good while over the topic. While I still donnot agree for there reasons, the aftermath of the e-mails and messages sent clossed the deal to the point where I could do nothing. Sorry Spirit I tried my best.

Post by **mkruer** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:40 am

Iâ€™m too lazy to say anything constructive.

Chow!

CoffeeBot · Post by **CoffeeBot** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:54 am

mkruer wrote:Iâ€™m too lazy to say anything constructive.

I say, "ass-munch."

Loaf is, I mean.

But, spirit, you said you were banned before...so, is there a history to it?

And it looks like there's some morons in there who are afraid of OpenSource

Killemall.

spiritplumber · Post by **spiritplumber** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:02 am

I did overreact somewhat and apologized for it first. Now the ball is in their court.

I mantain that if it's both mine and LOAF's fault, we should get yelled at in equal parts. Fair is fair, but that goes both ways.

Re threats: Not really. I said that if he didn't unban my IP I was going to get around it. Plenty of HTTP proxy servers in the world, IP banning is fairly useless... a polite request to not post anymore will get a lot farther with me.

All LOAF needed to do was TALK to me and examine who started it and who continued it, which he didn't. ChrisReid did and I respect that, which is why I have indeed stopped posting -- he ASKED.

With me civility will get you a lot farther than force; LOAF threatened to use force, so I said that if he wanted to escalate it I'm perfectly willing to go talk to him face to face to smooth things out, but he should expect a broken nose if he starts anything.

In fact at this point I'd prefer that happening so he can get it out of his system and prove his masculinity (although losing an actual fight with me might be counterproductive in that respect).

As far as locking myself out of WCNEWS: As I already had to explain to a lot of people, including some professors and at least one police officer, a locked door to me is a puzzle begging to be solved. Asking me to not open a door will go a lot farther than putting deadbolts in it, if I'm in a creative mood. I will be locked out of WCNEWS when the person in charge of it asks me to consider myself locked out of it, not a moment before.

This said, I got my last contract job by lockpicking my way in and doing the job itself the night before the customer would announce who they picked for doing the job. I have to confess that I had a lot of fun especially when they opened the door

and no, i'm not making any of this up, proof available upon request.

This is part of my philosophy that a lot of unjust things exist only by fear of force, the best way to deny that power is to be unafraid of it any time possible (admittedly it's not a good philosophy when someone is aiming a gun at your head, but it does work in a lot of other cases). And yes I do occasionally go to antiwar marches and I have sort of picked a fight with a policeman at least once, fortunately Italian police are less trigger happy. Being a guest in this country does mean I'm less politically engaged though, this is mostly out of respect for the prime directive if you will

Re first time: I was banned for disagreeing about how the Intrepid came to be, I think. I answered a post about that when I finished my Intrepid-before-carrier-conversion mesh, then realized that the post had been more or less abandoned for some time.

To summarize:

Bannination, IP blocking = ineffective
Talking to me eye to eye = effective
Why I'm making such a big deal of this = BECAUSE ABUSE OF POWER, WHATEVER THE POWER AND WHATEVER THE ABUSE, PISSES ME OFF TO NO END. Give a bit of power to almost ANYONE and they turn into assholes... see why I don't want to use power even when I have it? I'm a good kitty and would like to stay so. Nip it in the bud, I say!

John Cordell · Post by **John Cordell** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 10:38 am

Well Spirit we talked about it yesterday night, now i've read the stuff you wrote there and i can see no reason why they banned you. I'm a little bit surprised about that and it seems i'm not the only one...

All i can say is, don't worry, you have your forum here where you can write and discuss stuff and btw. gold got it's own as well today (at last!!!) ;)

charlieg · Post by **charlieg** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:31 pm

Gratz on the new board JC.

As for bannination, spirit, the best thing you can do is to be bigger than he/them. The people that run Crius have serious issues. I would use expletives but, y'know, I'm above it. There's no point sinking to their level. I've certianly learnt that offering things like broken noses is only going to give them fuel to further trash you. Chuck will remember what I'm talking about.

It's better that we as a community just avoid their house and concentrate on our own. Don't attempt to circumvent their ban, you're just wasting your time and further aggravating them. Whilst the latter might be amusing, the former should matter to you. Time is precious, one of the few things we can lose but never get back.

Perhaps it's worth creating a WC-oriented board on wcuniverse.sf.net and creating a new WC fan site where people don't get trashed and banned for having opinions not matching that of the owners.

Post by **chuck_starchaser** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:22 pm

That's an idea, CharlieG. The more I read about WC history, the more interesting I find it. One thing I wish there were is a fully detailed timeline, with full dialogs, mission briefings and descriptions, reference hyperlinks; we could start with that, perhaps make it a wiki.

Post by **klauss** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:07 pm

So weird.
I don't get LOAF's reaction.
What do I do in those cases? I said this already in other circumstances:

He doesn't want you in those forums. You obviously get pissed by him (by his use of force). Is there a point in talking to him? No. He doesn't want to listen (that's why he banned you). You will only have a reason to go there when he does want to listen... so... don't bother. Let him be whatever he wants to be.

XV-745 · Post by **XV-745** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:32 pm

The fact that he linked to your livejournal in his response... very classy...

XV

powell99 · Post by **powell99** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:27 am

Well I have to say one thing. Both sides have done stuff wrong. At cirus we yell and shout and for the most part we realize we are all good guys and gals and leave it at the end of the thread. Some times we don't. Now I think when you go in and get yelled at (which has happened to me more than a little), you generally suck it up and keep on going. People who start flame wars (sorry y'all but you did a fair ammount of that) don't last long. I know why spirit was banned. The WCU project got on everyones "list" when it came to the little things of mucking up our universe (lets make new ships) and then creating a division (Retros against AWACS). You are doing it here too with your "They're all brownnosers and LOAFs out of his mind. Oh spirit woe is you and whatnot" The people at Cirus are normal people but, when you start a whole event like AWACs vs Retros you sort of put nails in your coffin.

Finally, when the project first started posting in the CIC. It went in uprofessionaly. I mean look at the Standoff team. They made a damn good mod. Saga looks damn good. Howard Day's group looks awsome. When you went in it looked like "Hey we like the Idea of Wing Commander but we are going to make alot up and add some ships that were never there.

With that said. I mean NO offence what so ever. I mean it to be a reasonable talk with no fighting. I also wish the WCU Project the best of luck.

powell99 · Post by **powell99** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:29 am

Well I have to say one thing. Both sides have done stuff wrong. At cirus we yell and shout and for the most part we realize we are all good guys and gals and leave it at the end of the thread. Some times we don't. Now I think when you go in and get yelled at (which has happened to me more than a little), you generally suck it up and keep on going. People who start flame wars (sorry y'all but you did a fair ammount of that) don't last long. I know why spirit was banned. The WCU project got on everyones "list" when it came to the little things of mucking up our universe (lets make new ships) and then creating a division (Retros against AWACS). You are doing it here too with your "They're all brownnosers and LOAFs out of his mind. Oh spirit woe is you and whatnot" The people at Cirus are normal people but, when you start a whole event like AWACs vs Retros you sort of put nails in your coffin.

Finally, when the project first started posting in the CIC. It went in uprofessionaly. I mean look at the Standoff team. They made a damn good mod. Saga looks damn good. Howard Day's group looks awsome. When you went in it looked like "Hey we like the Idea of Wing Commander but we are going to make alot up and add some ships that were never there.

With that said. I mean NO offence what so ever. I mean it to be a reasonable talk with no fighting. I also wish the WCU Project the best of luck.