I have an UI usability problem... please help me solve it?
It involves what to do with cargo wingmen. There are currently two ways of doing this; ejecting them as cargo or launching them as guns/missiles.
Care to check out both?
http://www.spiritplumber.com/priv_remak ... _cargo.zip
Give yourself a caernaven (or purchase one). This is a test and will only work with a caernaven for now. YOU WILL HAVE TO RESET THE CAERNAVEN (erase the caernaven.stock entry in ./privateer100/serialized_xml) or run reset_universe.bat for this to work.
Buy some cargo wingmen in the commodity exchange.
Go to the upgrades screen, under ammunition, buy a Scramble Launcher and mount it in the capship-heavy slot. It's at the very end of the list, scroll down.
The cargo wingmen haven't been changed. The second method involves firing the ships like a gun (it will show up as scramble.scramble and launch a talon). BE SURE TO TURN OFF YOUR ANTIMATTER GUN OR IT WILL BLOW UP THE SHIP YOU JUST LAUNCHED
Both types will obey your commands the same way, and both types can be tractored in (should be anyway). Right now both end up in the cargo bay (and can be ejected again) but we will add a "rearm" option if launchtubes are preferred.
We will aslo make it so that you have to wait before ejecting cargo wingmen (already implemented in the "launch tube" mode.
Please tell me which method is most easy to use!!!! Also tell me other improvements you may want (example, buying those fighters in the ship dealer screen) that are related to the topic.
THIS WILL PROBABLY ALSO AFFECT VEGASTRIKE IN GENERAL.
Let me know which method is more convenient!
(I'm not making this a poll to allow people to give an answer bigger than yes/no, just reply under this thread)
ADVANTAGES OF CARGO METHOD:
* It already works (especially the retrieval)
* Cargo bay limits # of fighters, which makes sense.
* Slightly cleaner spawn logic.
* Possible to mix and match fighters up to capacity.
ADVANTAGES OF LAUNCHTUBE METHOD:
* We can have an external hangar pod if so desired (same as how the missile launchers are done right now), it also becomes an upgrade we can add to a ship (logically it would have to be a capship but you get my idea)
* Launch delay already done
* This is how the AI launches its ships already, having 1 method for player and nonplayer ships would be good.
* Possible to define different sizes for launch tubes = different sizes of fighters you can carry.
Once in flight both types of wingmen act the same, this is merely a launch thing. If you don't want to launch as a gun, we can launch as a missile or even add another key entirely. Actually we might add a extra key anyway
USABILITY QUESTION: Launch tubes or hangar?
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USABILITY QUESTION: Launch tubes or hangar?
Last edited by spiritplumber on Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Moral Code:
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Frankly, I don't know what it means "launch as...". From my point of view, if you buy ships and they occupy space in your cargo, and you can launch them it means your ship has some kind of launch bay connected to the hold and having doors that open to the void. "Tubes", as in carriers, I would assume are a special type of launch bay for launching a single ship at a time, probably having a linear accelerator or "catapult" to help give the ship some initial momentum? In any case, these tubes would be huge --no comparison to missile tubes--, and would be complex, full of equipment, and therefore built into the hull, not a purchaseable add-on. The Tiger's Claw had something like a dozen tubes, and each tube could launch like 1 ship per minute, I reckon, since I read it could scramble all its 140+ escorts in like 10 minutes. So, tons of equipment. I'd say the tube would be just the visible part, but, like in an aircraft carrier, you got a ship deck below with an elevator, the catapult also below deck, these walls for flame deflection that slid up behind the plane, arrester cables... You could translate all that to a space ship launching tube and find that as much as twice the volume of the tube is needed next to it for ancillary equipment.
But I'd say only carriers would have such things. Even a paradigm doesn't; --or at least I don't see any tube-looking things on them.
Whatever you do, could we have the escorts come back and dock by themselves, instead of having to use a tractor beam to pull them in? It makes absolutely no sense, given that any rookie pilot knows how to dock; it's tedious work; and besides, tractor beams are one of those "magical" things, with no conceivable scientific explanation how they work, so it would be nice to at least not make them a central element of gameplay.
EDIT:
Looks like launch bays can be "upgrades" in the case of the Caernaven at least:
But I'd say only carriers would have such things. Even a paradigm doesn't; --or at least I don't see any tube-looking things on them.
Whatever you do, could we have the escorts come back and dock by themselves, instead of having to use a tractor beam to pull them in? It makes absolutely no sense, given that any rookie pilot knows how to dock; it's tedious work; and besides, tractor beams are one of those "magical" things, with no conceivable scientific explanation how they work, so it would be nice to at least not make them a central element of gameplay.
EDIT:
Looks like launch bays can be "upgrades" in the case of the Caernaven at least:
Velden Jones was a Confederation convoy that was destroyed along with its escorts by Blacklance raiders operating from a Caernavon class frigate in the Hellespont System. One of the transports was taken out with a flash-pak. The Caernavon in question had a launch bay attached to its belly.
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I had a "scoop" type trac beam, but it was removed because it caused badness elsewhere...
other than that: yes we can make the damn things autoland.
other than that still: i'm just using "launch tube" and "hangar" styles as abbreviation for concepts.
launch tube: shoot the fighter out as if it was a weapon, with the spacebar or enter key.
hangar: eject the fighter as if it was cargo with ctrl+x.
IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY STILL, PLEASE BRING IT UP!!!!! since we're making code changes we might as well do a bunch of them.
other than that: yes we can make the damn things autoland.
other than that still: i'm just using "launch tube" and "hangar" styles as abbreviation for concepts.
launch tube: shoot the fighter out as if it was a weapon, with the spacebar or enter key.
hangar: eject the fighter as if it was cargo with ctrl+x.
IF YOU HAVE A BETTER WAY STILL, PLEASE BRING IT UP!!!!! since we're making code changes we might as well do a bunch of them.
My Moral Code:
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- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
- The only sin is to treat people as if they were things.
- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
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Ahhh!!!! Now I get it! Okay, I'd almost have said make Ctrl-L mean both "Launch and Land", like a toggle; but the problem is, you may not want to launch ALL your craft, right? You want to be able to make a selection?spiritplumber wrote: launch tube: shoot the fighter out as if it was a weapon, with the spacebar or enter key.
hangar: eject the fighter as if it was cargo with ctrl+x.
.
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yep. so should we launch with pgup + pgdown + CTRL-X or with (g)+ (spacebar) or with(w) + (renter) or what?
see mini-patch for what i mean.
see mini-patch for what i mean.
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- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
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- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
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I can't remember how ctrl-x works; I'm terrible; I read the instructions when I absolutely needed to for the Keydence missions, then completely forgot again all that stuff...
How about just Ctrl-L = Launch! (all escorts, what the heck)?
Then again, Ctrl-L = Land! (dock with me, all escorts unless you are targeting one of them, in which case ctrl-L tells only that one to dock back with ya)
EDIT:
Doh! Wouldn't work...
Okay, what about Ctrl-PageUp for launching, Ctrl-PageDn for come back & dock?
Then launching launches them all; but come back and dock is targeted to the unit you're targeting, or broadcast to all if not targeting any.
EDIT2:
Would be nice to be able to queue up orders; then I could issue one or more tasks to complete sequentially before even launching them.
How about just Ctrl-L = Launch! (all escorts, what the heck)?
Then again, Ctrl-L = Land! (dock with me, all escorts unless you are targeting one of them, in which case ctrl-L tells only that one to dock back with ya)
EDIT:
Doh! Wouldn't work...
Okay, what about Ctrl-PageUp for launching, Ctrl-PageDn for come back & dock?
Then launching launches them all; but come back and dock is targeted to the unit you're targeting, or broadcast to all if not targeting any.
EDIT2:
Would be nice to be able to queue up orders; then I could issue one or more tasks to complete sequentially before even launching them.
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Spirit: Is there a way (I know ther is, if you're tweaking the exe) to make the launcher gun take the fighters from the cargo bay? That would be the best option, IMO. But, make sure to take it from the PARENT's cargo bay. That is, if the gun is in a subunit, go up the hierarchy towards the parent. That may be very uncomfortable right now due to the void* stuff (because you shouldn't dereference the owner pointer), but it's doable anyway.
Oh.. And look at the nasty scooping beam... hell yeah!
scooping beam
Oh.. And look at the nasty scooping beam... hell yeah!
scooping beam
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My original idea honestly be leaving the weapons alone altogether.... I wanted to have a fighter bay that works like the cargo bay, except it only takes starships/* and that ejecting something from it takes X seconds. And it has its own key.
The "use weapon hardpoints" thing just kinda happened in a brainstorming between me and Daniel, it was quickly testable (no recompile needed) so I put it together.
This said, matey, autoland is fortunately trivial -- i be mostly waiting for a source code sync.
The "use weapon hardpoints" thing just kinda happened in a brainstorming between me and Daniel, it was quickly testable (no recompile needed) so I put it together.
This said, matey, autoland is fortunately trivial -- i be mostly waiting for a source code sync.
My Moral Code:
- The only sin is to treat people as if they were things.
- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.
- The only sin is to treat people as if they were things.
- Rules were made for people, not the other way around.
- Don't deceive. Real life is complicated enough.
- If all else fails, smash stuff.