Realistic and strategic mod: modelling

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 8:26 pm

This is the thread for ship and other models for the realistic mod.

FlyingAce leads this. I'll leave it to him to post the rules.

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:46 pm

ok, I tried to make it as close to your description as possible, but I don't think I got everything right, tell me what you'ld like changed to be more realistic.
(it's a cruiser, but if u remove the engines it can be a space station

)

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:54 pm

VERY NICE, FlyingAce!!!

That would do as it is. Great for a basic, large ship!

The engines for such a large ship could be better when you had one or more long tubes stick out of the back (for normal thrust), probably complemented with some cones for emergencies.

Or, if it should be a huge ship, add a very well cushioned plate at the back, so we could drop nucleair bombs behind it.

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:57 pm

I'd just make the front section a sphere. More volume cheaper, and it would look less like a penis. : )

For the rotating section, perhaps a cylindrical slice of the main body should also be on the rotating section's mesh, so that it can rotate with the rotating section. Right now it looks like the connecting tubes would look kind of silly against a static main body. But you'll probably be all over this anyways.

Looks cool!

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:59 pm

one thing about it is it's pretty high poly. at 1800 polys it's pushing it, but I doubt there will be very many of them at one time.

Post by **mkruer** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:44 am

FlyingAce wrote:ok, I tried to make it as close to your description as possible, but I don't think I got everything right, tell me what you'ld like changed to be more realistic.
(it's a cruiser, but if u remove the engines it can be a space station )

You might want to add a second ring of equele mass and have it spin in the opisate direction, otherwise "reaisticly" your ship would start to list to one side at the rate of the diffreance in mass between the ring and the rest of the ship divided by the speed of the rotation.

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:53 am

MKruer wrote: You might want to add a second ring of equele mass and have it spin in the opisate direction, otherwise "reaisticly" your ship would start to list to one side at the rate of the diffreance in mass between the ring and the rest of the ship divided by the speed of the rotation.

Agreed. That would be better. Otherwise, docking would require all the thrusters to fire to keep the ship from rotating around it's own axis.

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:31 am

improvement

Post by **mkruer** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:46 am

Ah the good ole NASA ship concept days

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:06 am

When can I have one? How much does it cost? What can I do with it?

peteyg · Post by **peteyg** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:09 am

Yah, that's what I'm talking about! Good call on the second rotating section.

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:21 am

hmm...

1.u can have the untextured version I have right now. I just need your e-mail.

2.as for how much it costs, I need to have something to go by.

3.u can launch fighters, drones, attack other cap-ships and fighters, etc..

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:36 am

FlyingAce, discuss that with PeteyG. He will try to balance all things to be fun.

Post by **mkruer** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:59 am

Hey FlyingAce did you ever see the movie Red Planet, with Carrie Ann Moss and Val Kilmer. Anyway there is ship "Mars One" I think itâ€™s called. Anyway you might want to take some notes on that ship. The ship is mondo cool and would totally fit. I will see if i can dig up an image for you

Post by **mkruer** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:33 am

I know they are crap but its the best i could find

hope you get the idea[/img]

Jadel · Post by **Jadel** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:36 am

Nice, but I think it should be blockier, without atmosphere there is no need to be streamlined, and all those smooth curves do is make it harder to build. The exception is if it's armored. Sloping and curves make a projectile more likely to bounce off, but in that case you don't want large external rotating rings.....

Jadel · Post by **Jadel** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:41 pm

After a bit of tinkering in wings I've managed to throw together a design that I came up for the Intruder project http://www.intruder.com/dev/design/dd099.htm an attempt to build a space strategy game on real physics principles.

It was cigar shaped to maximise the ratio of internal volume to frontal area, rounded and streamlined to increase the probability of a shot glancing off the hull. Most of the first third would be armour (alternating layers of hard metal/ceramic and foam), followed by fuel tankage and munitions, engines and finally the bridge would be in the tail section guarded by as much of the ships mass as possible.
The large pods on the left and right side were storage for missiles and drones. They also mounted the antenna arrays for the long range sensors (the electronics would be inside the hull, near the tail.) They were armoured heavily enough to protect against micrometeors, but it was assumed that they would get blown off in short order once in heavy combat. It could carry from one to four pods on quick release mounts spaced around the hull. Two was the normal number, any more tended to interfere with the point defence weaponry.
There was only a single reactor, but four plasma thrusters spaced equidistantly around the tail. Each one was a high agility design capable of -5deg to +120deg vector thrust allowing the frigate to maneuver with one or two completely inoperative.
The intention was to have a design that would be small and nimble while still able to take one or two hits from a battleship or Intruders secondary armament - long enough to fire off the load of ammunition from it's quartet of railguns and then get away, it wouldn't be able to cripple a large target, but certainly would be capable of destroying weapons with open gun ports, fragile long range sensor arrays etc.
Crew quarters would be much too cramped for long voyages away from a base or mothership, Likewise maintenance is not really possible without a drydock, but it was designed as a forward scout, picket and screening unit - not for long range exploration.
The big disadvantage is that while it is quite survivable against attacks from the front, it is much more vulnerable to attack from the sides and rear. The thrusters especially are large and relatively soft targets. It would need to be supported by other craft with a more "balanced" layout or anti-spacecraft drones.
My apologies if it doesn't really fit with what your doing, but I've had this thing bouncing around inside my head for about 18 months now, I thought it was time to let it out.

OK all done. Feel free to poke holes in it...

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:41 pm

1. yes, my ship indeed needs to be HEAVILY armored.

2. the rings are for artificial centripetal gravity (there is no "artificial gravity" like on Star Trek) and are supported by quite large pylons. They also each carry 4 laser turrets.

they are also quite neccessarry if you do not want your bones to turn to apple sauce

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:20 pm

Jadel, what a beautiful design! And I like your explanation! Very nice!

What do you think is the best way to be able to look to the front without the sensors detoriating quite fast? ANd what kind of plasma engine had you planned on using?

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:28 pm

FlyingAce, we could make one of your capital ships like a stack of rings as well! A bit like an inverted 'tower of hanoi'. At the front could be a thick, flat disk: the armor. Just behind it could be the rotating sections, close together. After that, lots of room for small ships, pods, missile racks, airlocks, etc. And at the back a long pipe: the engine.

Or it could be like a string of spheres, two cones attached to each others point, or a lot of other things. But I like it as it is as well.

How about a freighter? With a lot of clamps to hold containers?

Jadel · Post by **Jadel** » Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:23 am

The frigates engines would be plasma generators, producing hydrogen and possibly oxygen ions at high velocity. I hadn't thought too much on how the plasma generators would work since this was a base assumption of the world I was working in. All human ships used raction drives based on ionizing reaction mass.
Because the Ions are moving and electrically charged if they pass through a magnetic field, it will cause them to curve at right angles to the field. Thus add one superconding electromagnet and we can vary the direction if thrust at will with no moving parts.

DiGuru · Post by **DiGuru** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:53 am

FlyingAce and Jadel, could the both of you post a list of specs and some models to make a range of ships, from drones to dreadnoughts?

And how should that range go? Like wet naval ships:

missile
torpedo
drone
scout
gunship
destroyer
light cruiser
heavy cruiser
battleship
dreadnought
monitor
station

Or something completely different?

And which ones should be manned?

FlyingAce · Post by **FlyingAce** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 4:41 am

more ships (not scaled for comparison)

should I make the particle shooter thingys on the drone point in all directions?

(this picture will be updated periodically since I have free hosting and limited # of files hosted @ 1 time)

Post by **dandandaman** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:20 am

Jadel wrote:Nice, but I think it should be blockier, without atmosphere there is no need to be streamlined, and all those smooth curves do is make it harder to build.

This depends on how fast it is going. If at a significant percentage of the speed of light (say 5 - 10 % ) then the gas that *does* fill a vaccume (especially within solar systems...ie oort cloud and closer) will seem pretty viscous, and a streamlined hull would become wanted.....although I'm not sure what the top speeds for the ships here will be, I don't think that this would become a problem for this mod

Dan.a

Jadel · Post by **Jadel** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 10:28 am

Good point. Quick bit of googleing gives a figure of 0.1 to 1000 hydrogen atoms per cubic centimeter, depending on the area. But these are magnetically charged and as such can be deflected by magnetic fields.

Some ideas starship sizes/classes. Note that a lot of modern warships seem to play fast and loose with these so feel free to do the same! Designations should be more on the crafts tasking than it's size.

Fighter/Gunboat - Small, highly maneuvorable, no FTL (depending on our game universe anyway

) not capable of long range independent operation.

Destroyer - Offensive/Escort craft. Emphasises speed and firepower over armour. Does not normally operate alone, but is usually seen in groups or in the company of other vessels. Tends to make hit and run attacks against larger vessels.

Frigate - As destroyer but more balanced between defense and offense. More likely to engage in toe-to-toe slugging matches

Cruiser - Medium to large sized vessel capable of long term independent action. Type most likely to be encountered on independent missions. (smaller craft travel in flotillas, larger are always escorted.)

Battleship - Large, heavily armoured ship with direct fire weaponry. The peak of it's type. May be obsolete depending on the current state of the art.

Strike Carrier - light cruiser sized vessel carrying a complement of fighters (1 squadron?). used for raiding and hit and run attacks. Some direct fire weaponry, but relies on fighters for it's offensive punch.

Fleet Carrier - Large craft carrying many squadrons (6?) of fighters, plus repair facilities and enough supplies to keep them in operation for a significant period. Weapons limited to point defenses.

Battle Rider - Firepower and armour of a battleship on a craft roughly 1/2 the size. This is made possible by removing the FTL drive and cutting back on support facilities and repair capability. Not capable of independent action.

Battle Tender - Extremely large, virtually unarmed. A large docking and repair facility with a jump drive. Designed to carry 6-10 battle riders.

Rockets - Powered weapons with a warhead but no guidance facility.

Missiles - Powered and guided.

Drones - Range in size from centimetres across to the size of a fighter. Different from missiles in that they have a two way communication facility with their launch platform.
Drone types:
Recon - sensor platfroms, usually either active or passive (putting both on a single drone is considered a waste.)
Gun - Carries short range direct fire weaponry. Typically lightly armoured and *very* maneuverable.
Kamikaze - Effectively a command guided missile, used when the warhead is too dangerous to trust to an automated system.